My SSS stats, Need Advice

    • kenthmp
      kenthmp
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 485
      Here are my stats:




      Possible leaks:

      Plays made not according to Basic SSS= $-14.95

      I limped in 3 times in those entire 8,778 hands.
      Twice I lost a total of $0.15 for limping in.
      Once I gained $0.09.
      Net loss $0.06

      Total= -$15.01

      Other losses is $51.97-$15.01= $36.96

      The other losses includes plays made strictly according to Basic SSS and then lost the hand due to coolers and suckouts. Also includes hands where I don't know exactly what to do. I already posted those hands in the appropriate forum.

      It seems to me that part of my loss of -$36.96 is due to variance and the other part due to not knowing what to do (etc. freeplay).

      My bankroll is now at $35.00, it would've been at $50.00 if I did not make those non-Basic SSS plays. Will take a 1 day break off of playing poker now. Looking forward to what you all have to say and advices etc.
  • 15 replies
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
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      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      VP$IP is low, even for SSS. SSS tends to be 7-8% VPIP with VPIP = PFR. Appears you may be folding a few more hands than the chart says to. That or you are having an extremely unlikely run of cold cards...

      W$WSF is very low. I think this is because AFq is very, very low.

      Now, AFq is aggression frequency. It is literally how often you bet when given the chance. 34.05% is disturbingly close to the chance you have of hitting a flop, say with AQ, AK, AJ, etc.

      So I think I have your leak -

      Continuation bets. Lets say you raised with AKo and get 1 caller, and the flop comes out

      Q J 4

      Since raise was 4BB, caller was CO and the blinds folded, the pot is 9.5BB.

      You are first to act. Your remaining stack is 16BB. What do you do?

      Bet!

      Villain doesnt know you have AK. Villain knows you have a hand that is not rubbish. It could be AQ, QQ, KK, AA. Lie and say you have one of these hands. Do this by betting. The vaster majority of the time the opponent will fold, even if they are in front with something stupid like 55 or 45s.
    • kenthmp
      kenthmp
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      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 485
      Hello Jaissica, thanks for replying.
      About the VPIP being too low, I personally think it's cold cards or my sample size is not large enough. I AM playing all the playable hands in the chart tho. It's hard not to :D

      If you don't mind me asking, what does W$WSF stands for?

      About the continuation bets, I always do it if I have only one opponent and they check to me. However, if I did not hit the flop and my opponent bets (even if it's a min bet) I fold. This thing is mentioned in the articles and I am doing it.
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
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      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      Originally posted by kenthmp
      About the VPIP being too low, I personally think it's cold cards or my sample size is not large enough. I AM playing all the playable hands in the chart tho. It's hard not to :D
      Your PokerTracker stats disagree with you. You should really check into this first because this could EASILY account for your losses. You aren't playing enough hands if you are almost at half what the strategy specifies. Are you 100% certain you are counting your position correctly?

      Strangely your VP$IP and PFR are exactly the same. Does that mean in 8,000 hands you weren't once sitting the SB with a hand worth half a bet? Make sure you read all of the articles available to you including the BSS ones. They will give you the poker knowledge you need to start making some plays.

      Your attempt to steal and fold to steal is really low. In the CO and Button if everyone else folds to you then you should be raising 3.5 BBs every single time at these limits. (It won't be that often.) Again I find it hard to believe that after 8,000 hands you haven't seen one hand worth defending your blind against.

      Finally, make sure and use your HUD. You can make plays that cannot be made without that information. However be sure you have AT LEAST 100 hands on that person. If you don't have at least that many then make the safest play.

      (Well after I wrote this I noticed that a lot of the articles that deal with these topics are at gold level. This site is just too greedy to actually help its members so you'll have to look for this information elsewhere. You can't possibly survive at the pace that they give out information here.)
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
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      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Steals isnt really required while learning SSS.

      You certainly cannot raise with any two cards to steal from BU / CO / SB as SSS as if someone attacks you you have to go all in. You cant call, see a flop, catch something random and continue because you have zero implieds. If you want to expand to stealing you raise with more PPs and more aces, some suited kings, not any two random crap. Stuff that can be in front or has good equity in an all-in situation is what we need, not stuff that is playable postflop. Ironically the push-or-fold charts from the SnG/tournament section are somewhat useful for selecting hands to steal with playing SSS.

      W$WSF is won $ when saw flop. Basically it should be in the high 40s at the very least. We only get into a pot with premium hands as SSS so we should be winning a whole lot of them.

      I suggest expanding your continuation bet policy, as 34% AFq is only about 1% higher than your chance to hit a given flop with a hand such as AK. You can conti bet vs more than one opponent as we are representing a very, very tight hand range, despite what the cbet article says.

      If someone min-bets at you (1BB) and you hold AK on a flop like

      Q :spade: 7 :spade: 3 :heart:

      Consider raising or just shoving. Their bet is often representing a flush draw or some rubbish pair, and by shoving you wont give them odds to call. Even better some flushers will call because they are bad at poker and suited hands are too pretty to fold, and unless theyve also got a pair you are still taking the pot half of the time with air.

      Now, the silver cbet article also waffles on about "1/2 pot to 2/3rds pot" bet sizes. Scrap that. Its rubbish. You cbet what you would bet if you had the hand you are lying and saying you have! EG, we hold AKs of diamonds on the flop above. We are going to lie and say we have AQ, KK or AA (doesnt matter which really). We would need to protect from the flush draw.

      As I posted above its common to have 16 BB left and a 9.5 BB pot. We are going to bet at least 8 BB to protect our hand properly from a flush here, which means half our stack is going in. If half our stack is going in, so is the other half, per standard SSS bet rules. Dont mess around with readable half-pot cbets on drawing flops. Shove it as if you mean it.

      You will lose a stack now and then, and suck out with your overcards now and then, but there is an aweful lot more fold equity when you do what you would do if you actually had the cards rather than some wanky half-pot bet that you only make when you are lying. Anyone who cares to notice will start raising your cbets with air and turn you into a virtual ATM.

      If in any doubt, simply say to yourself "what hand would I be representing by betting here?". Then ask yourself "what would I bet with that hand in this situation?". Then go ahead and bet it.
    • s1ndr0me
      s1ndr0me
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2009 Posts: 131
      I'd use longHUD with the Pokerstrategy.de SSS starting chart. which is obviously same as the starting chart you are using. You'll soon be able to tell if you've been playing the right hands in the right situations.
    • kenthmp
      kenthmp
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 485
      I forgot to mention that I am playing NL10 in FullTilt. I now use table selection to avoid tight players :D There are a lot of them at FullTilt. If a table shows a Plr/flp of 40% or higher I will sit in. If it will drop below 33% I will leave. IMO playing with other tight players is a waste of time.

      @tokyoaces, thank you for your input.

      My SHC: http://resources.pokerstrategy.com/Strategy/en/ps_nl_basic_handout_V3_en.pdf
      My guess is that this is the Version 3 of SSS. Maybe we have different SHC? As for counting my position, I have no problems with that.

      Strangely your VP$IP and PFR are exactly the same. Does that mean in 8,000 hands you weren't once sitting the SB with a hand worth half a bet? Make sure you read all of the articles available to you including the BSS ones. They will give you the poker knowledge you need to start making some plays.


      I am not sure what hands are worth half a bet. Besides doesn't SSS tells us to always raise when we have a playable hand?

      Your attempt to steal and fold to steal is really low. In the CO and Button if everyone else folds to you then you should be raising 3.5 BBs every single time at these limits. (It won't be that often.) Again I find it hard to believe that after 8,000 hands you haven't seen one hand worth defending your blind against.


      It is low because I do not attempt to steal anything. Those articles are for gold members and I do not have access to them. As for defending my blinds, I am not even sure which hands to defend my blinds with. I am only playing basic SSS here.

      Finally, make sure and use your HUD. You can make plays that cannot be made without that information. However be sure you have AT LEAST 100 hands on that person. If you don't have at least that many then make the safest play.

      (Well after I wrote this I noticed that a lot of the articles that deal with these topics are at gold level. This site is just too greedy to actually help its members so you'll have to look for this information elsewhere. You can't possibly survive at the pace that they give out information here.)


      I tried using HUD but I am not sure what to do with those stats :D
      And there are probably too many players at NL10 it will probably take a long time to get 100 hands from each of them.

      Maybe those articles are gold for a reason :D Like it should only be applied when I am playing at higher limits?


      @Jaissica
      Thanks, I will incorporate the necessary adjustments about the c-bets. I have a question, what if I have something like 77 (lowest playable pairs), I raise with it, got 2 or 3 callers then did not hit on the flop or the flop shows a bunch of overcards. Do I still make the c-bet here?

      And scrap the silver articles? Methinks some articles needs revisioning :D

      off topic: I notice in your sig that your link is not clickable. To make it so, go to the edit signature area and hit options (right below the text putting place) uncheck the box that says Deactivate BB code in this sig. Then click the icon with a globe in it. First put in your blog title then put in your blog URL. It should make it a clickable link :D I hope I didn't bore you to death. :f_biggrin:
    • Gerv
      Gerv
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Well with 6.6k hands, it is partly variance (10%) because the chance of obtaining aces is like 1/220

      That said, your VPIP/PFR ratio is good but the absolute percentage as in 4.9% is in my opinion the bottom percentage. Meaning you have to expand your plays or simply play up till 20k hands and review it again

      Moreover, your AF & AFq as Jais said, points out you don't c-bet as often as you have to (close to 90% as a SSplayer supposed too)

      You argue that you fold to a mindonkbet, I ignore those 1bb/2bb donkbets and just make a cbet up to 75%

      Resteal with AJ+,88+ as it is now 5%, you can make money out of this as well.

      I hope this helps & looking forward to see you on the SSS coachings :)

      - Gerv
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
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      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Originally posted by kenthmp

      off topic: I notice in your sig that your link is not clickable. To make it so, go to the edit signature area and hit options (right below the text putting place) uncheck the box that says Deactivate BB code in this sig. Then click the icon with a globe in it. First put in your blog title then put in your blog URL. It should make it a clickable link :D I hope I didn't bore you to death. :f_biggrin:

      Not even a little bit Ken. I tried for about 20 minutes to find out why my sig wasnt clicky-linking :) Fix incoming, thanks alot!

      I dont advocate scrapping all the silver material, just the bit that says "cbet this much", because I disagree. I tend to be fairly uppity about things I disagree with and be very unimpressed with argument from authority, much to the upset of the hand judges in the judge forum at times I am sure, so its just my personal thing to say "ignore that, its crap". Im sure it works for some people or it wouldnt be written I guess :)

      With 77 on a big overflop, well, generally when you cbet your cards really arnt that critical. It helps to have overcards or a draw of some kind but that isnt really why we bet, we bet hoping to take the pot down right now. You arnt playing your hand - you are playing your opponents hands and what they think your hand is.

      Your opponents should think your hand must be pretty big - else you wouldnt raise as tight SSS. 5% VPIP/PFR doesnt even include 77. So, a flop that is A K 8 is an excellent flop for you to see if you raised with 77 - because you can bet and anyone who doesnt have or cant beat top pair is normally folding out. It is your image as a very tight player that we trade on by being aggressive every time we see a flop, hence the TAg acronym - tight aggressive :) Players cant comfortably call with marginal cards because we so often have the nuts if we see a flop, so they often have to fold even when we miss.
    • Termi8r
      Termi8r
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      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 408
      Originally posted by Jaissica

      Now, the silver cbet article also waffles on about "1/2 pot to 2/3rds pot" bet sizes. Scrap that. Its rubbish. You cbet what you would bet if you had the hand you are lying and saying you have! EG, we hold AKs of diamonds on the flop above. We are going to lie and say we have AQ, KK or AA (doesnt matter which really). We would need to protect from the flush draw.

      As I posted above its common to have 16 BB left and a 9.5 BB pot. We are going to bet at least 8 BB to protect our hand properly from a flush here, which means half our stack is going in. If half our stack is going in, so is the other half, per standard SSS bet rules. Dont mess around with readable half-pot cbets on drawing flops. Shove it as if you mean it.

      If in any doubt, simply say to yourself "what hand would I be representing by betting here?". Then ask yourself "what would I bet with that hand in this situation?". Then go ahead and bet it.
      The bigger the amount of your continuation bet the higher your success rate have to be to make a profit. I think that if your stack is bigger than 1.5 the pot size then it is not profitably to push. Not all players on micro limits are stupid and you do often get called by some very strong hands. You will often have missed the flop with AK, AQ, AJ or be faced with over cards with your pair. By pushing it is often seen as a sign of weakness and you get called with weaker hands. You will often continuation bet and it can cost you alot with calling stations.

      By betting 1/2 - 2/3 pot you could save precious bb when re-raised by better hands and also get value from the nut hands you hit on the flop. This is only applicable if your stack is bigger that 1.5 pot on the flop, which often happens when you start the hand with a stack size >20bb's.

      I agree with the last statement saying that you bet like you have a made hand. If you keep it consistant then you keep them guessing. Often I see people fold to even 1/3 pot size conti-bets because they think i want them to call...

      From No limit Holdem: Theory and practice on bluffing: "Bet enough to get the job done but not much more"
    • burek2000
      burek2000
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      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      I agree with above said, but would like to add one more thing I noticed. I saw you played NL and PL. You cannot play SSS on PL tables, because then you cannot use one of your strongest weapons in SSS, a shove.
    • kenthmp
      kenthmp
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 485
      Resteal with AJ+,88+ as it is now 5%, you can make money out of this as well.


      Gerv can you please elaborate on this? I don't quite understand.

      ---
      My head hurts now, lots of things to absorb :D

      @termi8r
      What if my stack is less than 1.5 the pot? I have to push here if I make a cbet. Would this be profitable?

      Ummm... where do these numbers come from btw?

      @burek2000
      Ok, I won't play at PL again. I played there because there were looser players there :D more cash when I have Rockets and Kings.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Sure, if you as a 5/5 player ORL/ATS is 10 % then the average Joe has at least an ATS of 15 meaning you can resteal with AJ+,88+ profitably ;)
    • kenthmp
      kenthmp
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      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 485
      Originally posted by Gerv
      Sure, if you as a 5/5 player ORL/ATS is 10 % then the average Joe has at least an ATS of 15 meaning you can resteal with AJ+,88+ profitably ;)
      You lost me there Gerv. What is ORL/ATS? And where can I get myself "updated" in statspeak? :D
    • Gerv
      Gerv
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/software/article/790


      ORL = Open raise Late
      ATS = Attempt to Steal, these abbreviations are in the glossary I think.

      Point is according to your picture, I see Att. to Steal (ATS) of 11% ;)
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
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      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Gerv, is his fold to 3bet a bit high for SSS?

      There is no way the SSS I bump into on tables are folding over 80% of their raises to a 3bet.