How is the order of hands decided?

• Bronze
Joined: 19.10.2008
Hi,

Just out of curiosity, how are the order of hands decided. Ie why is AK better than 44 but when they're heads up 44 is ahead. Not saying 44 is a better starting hand I just want to know how they calculate it.
• 13 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 15.01.2009
44 is a better starting hand because pre-flop all pocket pairs beat all suited connecters. It's pretty close to a coin flip with pocket 4's, but providing the Villian (or hero) doesn't catch an ace or king, or make a straight, pocket 4's are good.

Pocket 2's versus a suited AK is a coin flip though.
• Bronze
Joined: 19.10.2008
I get that but when you look at something such as the equilator program the order is AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 AKs 77 AQs AJs AKo etc. When you pick say 77 vs AKs, 77 is the favourite but lower in the order. Is there something I am completely missing?
• Bronze
Joined: 17.07.2008
AK has a very good chance to beat every hand except KK and AA.

77 gets dominated vs 88+

hope this helps...
• Bronze
Joined: 09.04.2009
Oops
• Bronze
Joined: 19.10.2008
Thanks for the replies guys but I still don't completely understand. Another example is AQs is ranked higher than AKo but heads up AKo is a 70% favourite. I'm sure there is a simple explanation for this.
• Bronze
Joined: 18.09.2008
Hi GunFlavoured

You're forgetting you aren't comparing AQs v AKo, you're comparing AQs v hand ranges of all opponents yet to act v AKo v hand ranges of all opponents yet to act.

Some hands have better playability than others.

IE your first example yes, 44 v AK, 44 is the better hand, but if you enter a pot with 44 and the flop is 78Q, where do you stand if villian is betting at you and all you have is a hand range?

Hence, pre flop AK is valued higher as an opening hand than 44.

Hope this helps.

Ofc if I'm talking rubbish no doubt I'll be corrected, but this is (I guess) the basic idea.
• Bronze
Joined: 19.10.2008
Originally posted by Waiboy
Hi GunFlavoured

You're forgetting you aren't comparing AQs v AKo, you're comparing AQs v hand ranges of all opponents yet to act v AKo v hand ranges of all opponents yet to act.

Some hands have better playability than others.

IE your first example yes, 44 v AK, 44 is the better hand, but if you enter a pot with 44 and the flop is 78Q, where do you stand if villian is betting at you and all you have is a hand range?

Hence, pre flop AK is valued higher as an opening hand than 44.

Hope this helps.

Ofc if I'm talking rubbish no doubt I'll be corrected, but this is (I guess) the basic idea.
Thanks,

I had a look at it and you're right, the order is deterined by the chance of that hand holding up vs any random hand. Ie AQs vs random is 66.3% chance to win while AKo vs random is 65.5% chance to win, etc.
• Bronze
Joined: 10.12.2007
The mian thing when comparing all hands, AK is only a big dog against AA and KK, flip or ahead of all other hands. Something like 44 is a flip against 2 overcards, and a big dog againts higher pockets. That's why some high connectors are rated higher than low/mid pockets, is about how they go against every poosible hand out there, rather than an individual hand.
• Bronze
Joined: 18.10.2008
well pocket 4s seldom improve, where AK improves 1/3rd of the time. 4s can be bluffed out of a pot when they dont improve, whereas when AK improves it becomes the nuts. 4s improving is the nuts too, but AK improves much more often.

lol @ random incoherent thought of mine.
• Bronze
Joined: 18.10.2008
actually pretty sure everyone else nailed this far more accurately. just ignore my post.
• Bronze
Joined: 17.04.2008
AK is also very overated by noobs........

you mention 4s in your eg..........ok compare 22 to 77 vs ak all will be about same %

now compare 22 to 77 vs say 910 and see what the % say

same sit pocket pair vs connected overcards dif is AK if you hit you are likely not to be up against a bigger pair... so rangewise its better.....

but dont get married to it post flop
• Bronze
Joined: 15.01.2009
Originally posted by TFMonty
AK is also very overated by noobs........

you mention 4s in your eg..........ok compare 22 to 77 vs ak all will be about same %

now compare 22 to 77 vs say 910 and see what the % say

same sit pocket pair vs connected overcards dif is AK if you hit you are likely not to be up against a bigger pair... so rangewise its better.....

but dont get married to it post flop
This is the problem most people make. They fall in love with their cards and push all in pre-flop, before running into aces.

AK is slightly overrated in my opinion.
• Bronze
Joined: 17.07.2008
Originally posted by SheepMoose
Originally posted by TFMonty
AK is also very overated by noobs........

you mention 4s in your eg..........ok compare 22 to 77 vs ak all will be about same %

now compare 22 to 77 vs say 910 and see what the % say

same sit pocket pair vs connected overcards dif is AK if you hit you are likely not to be up against a bigger pair... so rangewise its better.....

but dont get married to it post flop
This is the problem most people make. They fall in love with their cards and push all in pre-flop, before running into aces.

AK is slightly overrated in my opinion.
AK is a difficult hand to play