Hand of the Day - Part IX

    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      UTG+1: 55/21/1.27/37

      Limit Holdem Ring game
      Limit: $2/$4
      6 players
      Converter

      Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 8:club: 8:spade:
      UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, [color:#cc0000]Hero raises[/color], 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

      Flop: K:spade: 3:club: 2:heart: (5.5SB, 2 players)
      [color:#cc0000]UTG+1 bets[/color], Hero ??
  • 10 replies
    • zaephyr
      zaephyr
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.05.2006 Posts: 33
      Hmm tough spot, im between folding and raising, calling is the worst option imo. He is aggro enough to bet draws, but board is quite drawless.
      But then again i cant really put him on K, he pfr is quite high so he would raise sth like k9+ imo.
      So hes bet is either total bluff with sth like Ax or a set.

      I would probably raise on flop, then check behind on turn, and call a very probable river bet.
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      1st question: why would you like to play raise or fold here (i am not saying that it is wrong just asking why).

      Isn't this a Way ahead/way behind situation? Either he has the King or he it is a bluff. So raising when we are ahead will propably make him fold but raising when we are behind puts us into some more trouble.

      What do you think.


      2st question: with which cards on the turn would we like to continue to play this hand. What would be our plan against:

      a) hands like 4,5,6,7
      b) overcards like Ten to Queen
      c) an Ace
    • Kreatief
      Kreatief
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2006 Posts: 13,896
      I definetly raise this hand on the flop and bet out the turn, especially if a c) A falls :)

      If he donks the turn, he either feels good about his strong hand (K with good kicker), and this is a standard fish move, or he trys to steal the pot.

      If he has a good king, he will 3-Bet us most of the time. We have an easy fold, cause there are no draws possible.

      If he hasnt, we get the pot directly if he has totally nothing, which we would also get if we call, cause he normally doesnt bet out the turn again.

      If he has a mid- or lowpair, he might call it down, and we get value from it.


      If we raise, we want to see c) an A as a scare card for any king. His WTSD isnt that high, so he might fold a weak king if an A falls.


      DKT
    • zaephyr
      zaephyr
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.05.2006 Posts: 33
      Originally posted by Stefan1000

      Isn't this a Way ahead/way behind situation? Either he has the King or he it is a bluff. So raising when we are ahead will propably make him fold but raising when we are behind puts us into some more trouble.
      My mistake calling is a good option to.
      Yes this is WA/WB situation but not typical one.
      I really doubt he would fold A high hand for 1 bet on flop, while our check behind on turn may induce a river bluff (if we bet turn again he most probably only calls with good draw or better hand), only hands i see him folding on flop right away are sth like QJo.
      Anyway if we are behind we lose 1sb less then with usual WA/WB play, and we win pretty much the same (in long run), there are not many players that 3-barel with air.
      OFC this is very read dependant, and i usually play villians with such a stats my way.


      2st question: with which cards on the turn would we like to continue to play this hand. What would be our plan against:

      a) hands like 4,5,6,7
      b) overcards like Ten to Queen
      c) an Ace
      If we decide for calldown, we cd in a and b situations, and we can bluff-raise/free showdown raise on Ace
    • Pete70
      Pete70
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 919
      I call this down. I think i has a 3 or a 2, with the king he would check/raise the flop. So i let him bet his low pair. If he checks i have a easy value bet.

      If i raise him on the flop, he might decide to fold his low pair on the turn.
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      some interesting thoughts.

      Perhpahs someone wants to try a more detailed analysis and comparisson of different lines.
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      I don't really know how to play it "perfect"

      I guess I call him down because if he is bluffing or on a 2/3 he folds to a raise on the turn (if i raise i raise on the turn)
      If he has the K a raise could end in a 3-bet which i don't like because my hand is pretty nice and he could 3-bet which 32 or 45 or even A4. even a low two-pair is worth calling at least the flop because if have many outs.

      players like he often donk their bad hands and fold them on the folp or turn and check-call / check-raise the flop and check-raise / donk he turn so i don't fear a set or something (even top twopair i don't fear here)

      I call the flop. (if he checks on any other street i bet / fold)
      If an ace occurs and he still bets I'm in trouble ^^ and maybe I can bluff raise him here (37wts?) (pls tell me if that is nonsense)
      QJT is still a call
      4567 too
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      So with this hand i wanna talk about 2 different lines.

      a) Calldown

      b) Raise Flop, Bet Turn, cb River

      Therefore we will create different categories of "villain"

      Villain1)
      thinking TAG's
      Calling Stations
      tight or loose, semi aggressive player

      Villain2)
      Unknown
      LAG
      Maniac

      So as you can see category 1 are all fundamental playes who can make semi bluffs but are not that aggressive or they are even passive
      and category 2 is the more aggressive player

      We raise after an MP3 limper with 88. We are on the button. of course 88 is strong enough for this raise and we would like to knock out the blinds. The flop actually is not that bad we have 1 overcard and small cards.

      Villain bets into her who has been the preflop aggressor!

      So we have to make a decision.

      Some key facts for category one!

      a) We are more often ahead on this board then behind

      b) This board is an excellent bluff board for villain because he can think that we most of the time missed the flop.

      c) Against category 1 we can fold quite easily against a 3bet.

      d) There are propably a lot of hands with 6 outs against us so that we want them to fold directly on the flop.

      e) our opponent is not aggressive enough that he will fire another bluff bet
      often enough on the turn and river.

      So all in all the key factor to play this hand raise flop bet turn is his aggression factor. and against category one we can easily choose this line because the danger of folding a better hand is not that big.

      Some Key facts for category 2

      a) such aggressive players could propably fire a 3bet on the flop against us with a much weaker hand propably ace high and we will fold the winning hand.

      b) aggressive players tend to bet all streets with marginal hands or even as a bluff bet.

      These 2 facts are the reason why a calldown agains this player is the best move. We don't want him to fold neither do we want him to bluff raise here. So a simple and flat calldown is the best move against villain2.
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Don't you think a TAG could 3-bet his oesd? (ok a TAG wouldn't be in the hand..)


      why you asked about 3 different hands that may occur if thats not really relevant? ;)
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      To confuse you :D

      I know i am tricky