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[NL20-NL50] KK CO - OP on suited flop

    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $20.30
      BU:
      $30.53

      0.1/0.2 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is CO with K:spade: , K:heart:
      6 folds, Hero raises to $0.80, BU calls $0.80, 2 folds.

      Flop: ($1.90) 3:club: , Q:club: , T:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.40, BU raises to $3.40, Hero raises to $5.40, BU calls $2.00.

      Turn: ($12.70) 2:heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $8.00, [COLOR=red]Hero...[/color]
  • 7 replies
    • nttflox
      nttflox
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2007 Posts: 673
      I don't like your line here. If you decide to go with your hand you should reraise bigger on the flop and push a non-club turn.
    • delete461
      delete461
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      minraising is not an option, you are asking him to stay in the hand with 5/1 odds

      I would fold to his reraise, chances are he either has you beat already or he has a monsterdraw.
    • Talic
      Talic
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2008 Posts: 1,851
      Originally posted by nttflox
      I don't like your line here. If you decide to go with your hand you should reraise bigger on the flop and push a non-club turn.
      non club, probably also non ace turn.

      call here OOP is nothing good, because you give 2 free cards if opponent wants.

      Im incline to go broke here if it was SH, but in FR I can imagine folding it right on the flop after the re-raise
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      Originally posted by Talic
      Originally posted by nttflox
      I don't like your line here. If you decide to go with your hand you should reraise bigger on the flop and push a non-club turn.
      non club, probably also non ace turn.

      call here OOP is nothing good, because you give 2 free cards if opponent wants.

      Im incline to go broke here if it was SH, but in FR I can imagine folding it right on the flop after the re-raise
      So basically, I should raise/shove on the flop? But not if its FR?

      I dont see why fold if its FR and shove if its SH. Im CO, hes BU.

      I minraise for info. I respect his raise on flop, BUT I want to see if he really has it. If he shoves my minraise I can safely fold imo. But he doesnt. And turn is a blank. Tough spot for me.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by Talic
      Originally posted by nttflox
      I don't like your line here. If you decide to go with your hand you should reraise bigger on the flop and push a non-club turn.
      non club, probably also non ace turn.

      call here OOP is nothing good, because you give 2 free cards if opponent wants.

      Im incline to go broke here if it was SH, but in FR I can imagine folding it right on the flop after the re-raise
      So basically, I should raise/shove on the flop? But not if its FR?

      I dont see why fold if its FR and shove if its SH. Im CO, hes BU.

      I minraise for info. I respect his raise on flop, BUT I want to see if he really has it. If he shoves my minraise I can safely fold imo. But he doesnt. And turn is a blank. Tough spot for me.
      Min-raising for info does not work on drawy boards since your giving villain correct odds to call.

      You should either push or fold flop.
      His raise shows a lot of strength, a fold would be better I think.

      Oh and yeah there is difference between SH and FR because of hand ranges etc.

      SH its also a pretty tough situation. Will depend on my history with villain if I push or fold that spot.
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Very tough situation.

      If you choose to continue on the flop to the 3bet, I think you commit to finding out there and then if you are beat. Without a K :club: you have absolutely no reason at all to call (or make a min-raise that cant be folded to by anything except air).

      In fact in this situation a minraise at such a large pot is worse than just-calling because you have nearly no fold equity and no reason to want to see the turn / river yourself.

      Raise-broke or fold to the 3bet. We have to ask ourselves what hands the villian is capable of attacking us with here -

      * sets
      * top or middle pair + FD
      * OESD + FD / OESFD
      * possibly but unlikely 2pair (bad board for 2 pair such as QT)
      * possibly but very aggressive only a big FD (A or K :club: and missed rag)
      * possibly but unlikely moderate PP with FD (77-99)

      We are drawing to 2 outs vs a set; vs pair + FD only (no str) type hand like Qo4c we are 50/50 flipping, vs OESFD we are behind, vs 2pair we are way behind. Vs nut FD we are a little in front but not massively so (11 outs against us), vs moderate PP with FD only a little more (10 outs against us).

      So unless we have reason to believe villain is capable of dumb bluffs (bluffing without at least a FD here would be very, very dumb) we should fold KK on such a flop where we dont hold the K :club: . Even if we are in front we often wont be by the river, so we should find better times to play for stacks.
    • Talic
      Talic
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2008 Posts: 1,851
      bet/fold is probably the best here.

      in poker its better to raise or fold but not to call (generaly) =)