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Hand of the Day - Part IV

    • Alaton
      Joined: 21.02.2006 Posts: 1,498

      Stacksize Hero: 40$

      PartyPoker $200 NL Hold'em [color:#0000FF](9 handed)[/color] Recorded and converted with HandRecorder

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 4:spade: , 8:diamond:
      [color:#666666]7 folds[/color], SB calls $1, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($4.00) 4:club: , 7:spade: , K:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      SB checks, Hero checks.

      Turn: ($4.00) 8:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      SB checks, [color:#FF0000]Hero bets $4[/color], SB calls $4.

      River: ($12.00) 6:spade: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      SB checks, Hero checks.

      Final Pot: $12.00.
  • 6 replies
    • SatoriBR
      Joined: 11.01.2007 Posts: 14
      i would have played the same :D
    • rockster
      Joined: 06.08.2006 Posts: 2
      would have bet in the end.
    • Alaton
      Joined: 21.02.2006 Posts: 1,498
      The most important part of this hand is the river.

      Originally posted by rockster
      would have bet in the end.
      What opponents are best for a bet in your oppinion?
      And what hands do you want to get called by ?

      I hope we get some more thoughts here, as this hand is far away from being uninteresting.
    • kexix
      Joined: 01.12.2006 Posts: 83
      what about betting the flop?
    • JonKirk
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 19
      I'm gonna try to take a shot at this one.

      It's kinda hard to figure out what kind of hand the SB called with pre-flop, but I'm guessing some kind of connected cards 9T, TJ, JQ, or something like that. He might have had some kind of totally random hand, hoping to hit something big on the flop. Having played some hands with the villain would help to determine what kind of cards he would call with from the SB. But I'm leaning towards a connected hand, at least it's the only one that makes sense to call with. It might be lower than 9T, but it really could be any kind of hand.

      It looks like the flop missed him, so he just checked to you and eventually got to see the turn for free. If he had a king he would probably have bet the flop, trying to push out any drawing hand you might have. He might have checked a hand like 67 or 78, even though it couldbe worth it to throw out a small bet to see if his middle-pair was good.

      On the turn he might have some kind of draw, i.e. flush draw or an OESD, and even though he gets bad pot odds to call your PSB, I'm guessing he's justifying the call with the implied odds he gets if he makes his straight/flush.

      I'm pretty sure he didn't make the straight or flush yet, since he would probably have made a bet on the turn. Calling your bet wouldn't make any sense if he had an inside straight draw. The pot odds would simply be way too bad to justify a call.
      If he did in fact make his straight/flush and is trying to slowplay it, it seems ridiculous to check on the river, given that the board is open for flushes and straights making it hard for you to make a bet and allow him to check-raise you.

      Checking on the river seems like a reasonable choice. If you made a bet on the river, I can't imagine him calling with any pair except the kings but it seems unlikely that he has the kings given his play on the flop. If you did in fact bet the river and he came over the top you could be pretty sure that he made a straight and had you beaten, which would of course cost you more money than just checking it down. So in conclusion the check seems good since I'm doubting you would get any more money out of him. The only alternative outcome would be him coming over the top with a raise you couldn't really call. Throwing out a valuebet(if that's what we call it) can't really have any value in the long run. The way I see it he can't really have a hand he can call with. The only option for him would be to fold or to raise, thus making the bet worthless, since you can't call a raise.

      It could be, of course, that he's in the same situation as you, having two pair 8's and 7's or more likely 8's and 6's. Having a pair of 8's could easily have been the best hand after the turn came, which could justify the call. When the six comes he could have made two pair, but if he put you on a straight draw you might have completed with the six, he can't really bet the river, only to be faced with a raise he can't call. The villain also has every reason to believe that you have a good hand since you showed strenght on the turn, so he could be thinking that his two pairs isn't good enough.

      The way you played the hand is pretty straight-forward to me. Checking the flop with the low pair, betting the turn with two pair which is almost certain to be the best hand at the moment. The call should make you suspicious as to what kind of hand he's playing, and the 6 is definitely a scare card on a board like that, so checking the river is fine with me, since there really aren't any hands he can call you with, so you're either facing a fold or a raise you can't call.

      I'm basing all this on what I have seen on the limits I play(NL $25/NL $50), so it might be a completely different game at this limit. Furthermore, I'm far from good at this game and it's my first try at these sample hands, so my post is probably pretty unstructured, but you gotta start somewhere :)
    • Alaton
      Joined: 21.02.2006 Posts: 1,498
      Originally posted by kexix
      what about betting the flop?
      That's a good point!

      I definitely favor the bet on the flop here rather then the check behind.
      A bet of just half the pot only has to win the pot in 33% to be break even and since you have bottompair you have a draw at trips and twopair as well.
      Completing and checking is a sign of great weakness and is a perfect spot to bet out, since the SB also hast to fear calling with marginal hands since he is out of position!

      Originally posted by JonKirk
      Throwing out a valuebet(if that's what we call it) can't really have any value in the long run. The way I see it he can't really have a hand he can call with. The only option for him would be to fold or to raise, thus making the bet worthless, since you can't call a raise.

      Good work JonKirk!

      This is the most important thing to learn from this hand, a Valuebet does only make sense if there is any worse hand which is going to pay us off.
      But in this Hand here we will often really only get our opponent to fold his hand or we get raised and have to fold.
      You already said that and you are totally right!
      By just checking we will show our hand down and win in most cases anyways, but save the money we throw away if we get raised.

      An exception of course is a totally bad player who would call single Pairs and stuff like this in that spot, but given a normal opponent, this is an important check-behind on the river.