# playing draw

• Bronze
Joined: 15.01.2008

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/993/

The table shows that we have from flop to turn 4:1 on flush draw and 2:1 from flop to river.

For simplicity lets assume we have a flush draw on the flop and got offered 3:1 odds. Can we call? I always thought we are drawing 2 cards, so in that situation we could call it. On the other hand from the article I understood that we are drawing on one card from flop to turn if we are not going all in on flop which would let us see both cards.

well, lets take out the rest stuff like implied odds and so one. Just pure mathematics. Can I call flush draw on flop offered 3:1?
• 8 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 15.01.2008
I hate to bump it my self but any one?
• Bronze
Joined: 20.04.2008
Yes, if you are calling an all in.
• Bronze
Joined: 07.02.2009
this depends on so many factors.

Opposite player image, stage of tournament, chips you have left.
• Bronze
Joined: 15.01.2008
Yes, if you are calling an all in.

i was asking NOT about all in situation. lets say both opponents have 100bb stacks. you are in possition and got offered 3:1 to call a flush draw. is it mathematically correct to call it?
• Bronze
Joined: 15.01.2008
Originally posted by steIIstuI
this depends on so many factors.

Opposite player image, stage of tournament, chips you have left.
• Bronze
Joined: 23.03.2009
Hi Dziurgis,

A quick rule of thumb which I don't believe is taught in the articles here, but which stuck in my mind when I read it elsewhere, because it is a quick method, is the 4/2 rule.

This works out your % chance of hitting a draw, and is not 100% accurate mathematically, but is a good quick approximation.

You take your no. of outs, and with 2 csrds to come multiply by 4 and with one card to come, multiply by 2.

For your flush (assuming 9 outs)

flop = 2 cards to come = 4x9 = 36%
turn = 1 card to come = 2x9 = 18%

So if you are getting 3:1 on the flop with a 36% chance to hit, I would say that mathematically it is a call. Though of course in poker, that is never all the story...

All the best
Bryan
• Bronze
Joined: 20.02.2008
Hello Dziurgis,

To start off let me quote the general rule for this

If the pot odds are better (so the ratio is bigger) than the odds against completing your hand, you will make profit in the long run. If they are worse, you will make losses in the long run.

So if you have Flushdraw with which you are 4:1 to complete by the turn (therefore 1 every 5 times) and you are getting 3:1 to call then calling is not profitable. This is without taking implied odds into account though - which are actually quite important from flop->turn with big stacks.

A good example of where you'd have this kind of situation would be for example "You are on the turn and have 3:1 pot odds to call a flushdraw while being OOP - you know that if the flush hits your opponent will fold and not pay any more money" -> in this case the call would in fact be -EV since you only win 1 in every 5 times but have to pay 3:1 while having 0 implied odds.

In the SSS article - you rarely get into a situation in which you could call a flush draw that wouldn't commit you to the pot. Since you will either fold or go all-in on the flop with your FD you take the 2:1 odds that you get for seeing both the turn and river. Here 3:1 would be enough

Hope to have helped

Best regards
SoyCD
• Bronze
Joined: 15.01.2008
Hi MAGICBRYAN and SoyCD,