[NL2-NL10] Nl10 Fr Qq

    • 4bur
      4bur
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.03.2009 Posts: 25
      Hello,

      Here's the hand:
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP1:
      $10.85
      MP2(Hero):
      $9.35
      MP3:
      $10.40
      CO:
      $3.85
      BU:
      $15.00
      SB:
      $6.50
      BB:
      $18.65
      UTG1:
      $9.90
      UTG2:
      $10.00

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, Q.
      2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.3, Hero raises to $1, 5 folds, MP1 calls $0.70.

      Flop: ($2.15) 2, 3, 4 (2 players)
      MP1 bets $9.85(All-In), Hero calls $8.35(All-In).

      Turn: ($20.35) 7 (2 players)

      River: ($20.35) 9 (2 players)

      Final Pot: $20.35.


      Villain is a virtual unknown (8 hands, 60% VPIP, 40% PFR)

      Questions:
      1) Is my re-raise amount pre-flop correct?
      2) Is it correct to call an all-in donk here?

      Thanks!
  • 11 replies
    • maya1984
      maya1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      Since you are IP x3 are enough which is 90c.
      Gee crazy overbet. He can do this with all sorts of drawing hands, but sometimes scared players can do this with a set.
      Against unknown I think I just fold it since I invested only 10BB.
    • silent21
      silent21
      Global
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      i am taking the variance line - calling.

      against unknown who shoves this way i would put him on a wide range: 22+/QQ, any two spades, 56o, A5.

      i dont have equilator right now but i think we have more than enough equity to justify a call

      not as you will really need a note for this player on this limit but in higher limits i think such marginal calls are not the worst thing in the long term.
    • 4bur
      4bur
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.03.2009 Posts: 25
      Interesting. I'd tend to agree with the more cautious approach, as suggested by maya.

      What about this line of reasoning: since he is an unknown, we cannot assume (even at 10NL) that he is a complete idiot. Therefore this all-in donk looks more like a protection bet, rather than a bluff/semi... Is there a hand that QQ beats (or has equity vs) that he would play for protection? Not straights, not flushes, not AA or KK, so it seems like we can only hope for something like 99-JJ. Anything else is far ahead.

      Or is such reasoning to cautious here?

      P.S. Obviously, that's not the way I played :) ))
    • maya1984
      maya1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      Originally posted by 4bur
      Interesting. I'd tend to agree with the more cautious approach, as suggested by maya.

      What about this line of reasoning: since he is an unknown, we cannot assume (even at 10NL) that he is a complete idiot.
      Yes we can... :)

      Originally posted by 4bur
      Therefore this all-in donk looks more like a protection bet, rather than a bluff/semi... Is there a hand that QQ beats (or has equity vs) that he would play for protection? Not straights, not flushes, not AA or KK, so it seems like we can only hope for something like 99-JJ. Anything else is far ahead.

      Or is such reasoning to cautious here?.
      If indeed he is protecting here if often will do it with a set.
      Check this post:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/foru/thread.php?threadid=53027

      This will explain a little bit why I tend to choose non-variance decisions. I like putting my money in when I know I'm in front and I since I really not sure my OP is good here why risk 100BB when I only invested 10?
      We got a lot of edge over those fish so why giving them presents?
      Hope this helps a little bit to understand the logic behind my thinking.
      Good Luck!
    • 4bur
      4bur
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.03.2009 Posts: 25
      Maya, thanks for your comments in all of my question posts!

      Unfortunately, I can't access the link - can I search for it somehow?
    • maya1984
      maya1984
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      Look a for a thread named "NL10 FR: A9 against a maniac" posted by me (it's 4 pages before this page)
    • silent21
      silent21
      Global
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 1,556
      it is clear to everyone that to be a winning player on low limit you should play tight. On the other side to be a winning player on higher limits you should play more loose with many marginal hands.

      i think its better for people who are focused and devoted to succeeding in poker to find the equilibrium in low limits in playing solid and somehow marginal poker. if you play 13/11 on 0.05/0.1 you will be definetely a winning player but on the other side after you climb to a higher limit you will be already used to playing tight and will face problems in loosening your game.

      this is just my opinion and i would appreciate your thoughts.

      p.s. Maya i am waiting for your point of view :)
    • jupiterthegreat999
      jupiterthegreat999
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.03.2009 Posts: 64
      I would have called simply because of this:

      If he had AA or KK, he would have 3 betted you preflop?

      I really dont think you can put anyone on a 56 here, even an idiot. A set is more likely or even A5 is a bit morely, but still, I'd take my chances.
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Originally posted by jupiterthegreat999
      I would have called simply because of this:

      If he had AA or KK, he would have 3 betted you preflop?

      I really dont think you can put anyone on a 56 here, even an idiot. A set is more likely or even A5 is a bit morely, but still, I'd take my chances.
      +1

      Its a tough spot but villian could be doing this with 55+ for all we know.

      I would be easier if we had more reads on villian.

      Its close but i personally would call.

      -Jack
    • 4bur
      4bur
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.03.2009 Posts: 25
      Originally posted by kingdippy2008
      Originally posted by jupiterthegreat999
      I would have called simply because of this:

      If he had AA or KK, he would have 3 betted you preflop?

      I really dont think you can put anyone on a 56 here, even an idiot. A set is more likely or even A5 is a bit morely, but still, I'd take my chances.
      +1

      Its a tough spot but villian could be doing this with 55+ for all we know.

      I would be easier if we had more reads on villian.

      Its close but i personally would call.

      -Jack
      It's tough to have reads if you play the guy for the first time :) ))

      As for the subject - I started writing it here, but I'll move it to the Strategy section, since it is really becoming a general, rather than a hand-specific question.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello,

      Preflop: Raise size is fine.
      Flop: For lower the variance, I don't mind just folding directly on flop and wait for better situation. If you like variance then you can likely Call there and hope him not to have a set, likely just an overpair of some kind of combodraw.

      Best regards,
      Rensu