Changing gears.

    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
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      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Does anyone else do this or just me? I'm talking betting on the flop, checking the turn; even after improving, and betting the river.

      I've gotten paid off a lot more from getting the turn after improving to 4 of a king/trips.

      So does anyone else do this? Is it actually a good idea or is bet/bet/bet the best option?
  • 11 replies
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      I usually play bet bet bet vs fish but vs a regular I mix it up a little, many times they smell a rat and fold.
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
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      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      I usually play bet bet bet vs fish but vs a regular I mix it up a little, many times they smell a rat and fold.
      Don't fish feel that checking is a sign of weakness? Everytime I check the turn when improved they try to "bully" me out of the pot by betting.
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      Originally posted by SheepMoose
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      I usually play bet bet bet vs fish but vs a regular I mix it up a little, many times they smell a rat and fold.
      Don't fish feel that checking is a sign of weakness? Everytime I check the turn when improved they try to "bully" me out of the pot by betting.
      I meant stations, vs aggro players its best to induce bluffs whenever possible, let them feel they are in control of the betting.
    • Hackett77
      Hackett77
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      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 372
      I mix how i play depending on who i play. If its a calling station I bet bet bet, if villian is very agressive i check/call and raise on turn or river.

      Against other regs (my favorite opposition) im alot more creative and will play more hands in position with them than others as I know I can alot of the time raise their flop cbets or float them to win a pot no matter what I hold as they respect my bets/raises much more. Ill also 3bet them much lighter from the blinds.

      Also agaisnt very weak loose players who develope a bit of a fear of me i really go into overdrive and more or less raise every time they enter a hand (to isolate) no matter what I hold and basicaly bully them into folding, which is not as risky as it seems as they usually donk flop if they have anything then i just get away till the nesxt time.

      The key is knowing your opponnents and adjusting your game to suit, knowing what you can and cant get away with with each player.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
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      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hello!

      Changing gears is changing the style in a tournament from tight to loose, etc.

      What you are talking about is balancing lines and slowplaying.

      I would advise slowplay/balancing lines against thinking oponnents/regulars only and stick to the standard strategies against non thinking oponnents, calling stations and other types of fish.

      Regards,

      Primzi
    • degre
      degre
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      Joined: 30.04.2009 Posts: 413
      Originally posted by Primzistick to the standard strategies against non thinking oponnents, calling stations and other types of fish.
      /\ I do this /\

      Thinking players do require some special attentions, but generally lots of people plays in such an erratic way that you can't really count on adapting to them.
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
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      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Okay, I've done some reading of some peoples hands today, including some blackmembers hands from the German community!

      There's a few hands where they raise pre-flop, hit there TPTK or set, and instead of conti-betting they check and then bet on the turn. They don't do this on all hands but on some.

      What's the idea of this? I've seen the better people do this and after reading articles about c-bets I don't really understand why.
    • Hackett77
      Hackett77
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      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 372
      Originally posted by SheepMoose
      Okay, I've done some reading of some peoples hands today, including some blackmembers hands from the German community!

      There's a few hands where they raise pre-flop, hit there TPTK or set, and instead of conti-betting they check and then bet on the turn. They don't do this on all hands but on some.

      What's the idea of this? I've seen the better people do this and after reading articles about c-bets I don't really understand why.
      I will often do this if im out of position and villian has high flop agression, i do this because im pretty sure villian will bet flop, i will then usually Lead out turn.
      This gets a bet out of villian if he has missed (where he may fold flop to my cbet) and also helps to disguise my hand. If villian is super agressive and i have set I will maybe cjheckraise turn too.

      However if the board is super drawy I will check raise flop or just cbet flop as I dont to risk giving the turn card for free.

      In postion I may check a set on the flop if there are no obvious draws purely to disgusie my hand and when it looks unlikely villian has hit (therefore he would just fold to cbet), this opens up the possibility of villian leading out on the turn .

      If the villian is passive then there is no sense doing this and I just Cbet as normal
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
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      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Ok relating to the opening post what you are descibing is Pot Control. When you have hands like TPTK they are good, but always can be beaten. If there are no draws its easy to check behind the turn because you keep the pot small which means you risk less with your mediocre made hand.

      Also this can induce a bluff on the river from the opponent which you can either decide to flat call or raise - although if you get reraised you can be put in tough spots.



      The next thing you just mentioned is balencing. If you are talking about blackmembers then i am assuming that you looked at NL100+ :)

      At these limit most players are good which means you cant play every hand the same. i.e. when you have a set you will cbet most flops and bet most turns. But some other hands you will play differently like TPTK. You will cbet flop, check turn.

      So against thinking players you can become pretty readable.

      But the idea of balencing is changing your play from time to time. With some sets you could Check behind turn to make it look like you have a worse hands so the opponents think this.

      I have seen people balance preflop as well by cold calling raises with KQ, but saying the would do the exact same with AA (dont do this on lower limits) Its just one way of making you a little less readable ;)

      I hope you have understood what i tried to explain. Its a quite complicated topic.

      Good Luck at the tables,

      -Jack
    • p0kerQT
      p0kerQT
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      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,300
      Originally posted by degre
      Originally posted by Primzistick
      haha primzistick
    • delete461
      delete461
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      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      you should follow primzisticks advice - simple strategies for simple minded opponents, advanced strategies for advanced opponents.