How to play against LAG's?

    • kipperkalle
      kipperkalle
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2009 Posts: 126
      Can you give me some general suggestions how to play against LAG’s? I’ve found myself in deep trouble post-flop not knowing what to do against a LAG or two. Couple of hands ago they sucked you out with 74s and a lucky river card, then they call you down with 53o while having absolutely nothing and next time you call down they show you full house – seemingly they play all these hands the same way with mysterious folding every now and then and I’ve found it very hard to know what to do against them.

      Should you tighten up even more? Or vice versa - loosen your game a bit as well? Leave the table? Help a newb out please. :f_love:
  • 16 replies
    • kennyxx
      kennyxx
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.05.2008 Posts: 998
      Originally posted by kipperkalle
      Should you tighten up even more? Or vice versa - loosen your game a bit as well? Leave the table? Help a newb out please. :f_love:
      Definetely play tighter and let them pay Your strong hands. Loosening up will force You to playing many marginal spots and making difficult decissions.
      If You cannot handle table with more LAGs, just quit and find another one. With more experience You will find out how to play them correctly.
    • kipperkalle
      kipperkalle
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2009 Posts: 126
      Sounds reasonable, thanks!
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hello Kipperkalle!

      For more precise information on how to play against various oponnents, you should check this article.

      I have to correct Kennyxx here though, but it's alright since he doesn't have the access to silcer articles yet :) . We play only strong hands vs. calling stations (loose-passive players) rather than LAGs. Vs LAGs (loose-agressive players), we can often call down with more marginal hands and catch them on a bluff (2nd pair good kicker, top pair weak kicker). If they suck out on you, that's standard variance so you shouldn't care too much (even though I've had a 75BB downswing of suckouts yesterday, it can get pretty frustrating :( ).

      Regards,

      Primzi
    • kipperkalle
      kipperkalle
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2009 Posts: 126
      There was my dilemma - if I play tight, I might not have the odds to call a raise on the flop, so tightening will eventually lessen the number of hands I play and sometimes it's damn hard to fold two high overcards on the flop against maniacs. Obvious upside would have been bigger pots when you have the nuts, but they don't come around that often. Loosen up and take the risk of playing too loose. Newbie is confused :f_cry:

      I'll read the article, thanks for pointing that out Primzi!
    • kennyxx
      kennyxx
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.05.2008 Posts: 998
      Ouch, I'm sorry kipperkalle, I misreaded Your second sentence. I thought we are talking about preflop play. About postflop I have to agree with Primzi.
      My bad :(


      Originally posted by Primzi
      I have to correct Kennyxx here though, but it's alright since he doesn't have the access to silcer articles yet :)
      I am bronze for today only but thanks for correcting me anyway (beginning of month, You know...)
    • kipperkalle
      kipperkalle
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2009 Posts: 126
      I was asking for pre-flop and post-flop and basically play in general. To be more precise I had a session against a guy who bet/called pre-flop no matter what's his position, hand or action before him and then went completely berserk capping anything and everything.

      I tried to play looser pre-flop, but that lead to hard decisions on the flop and for the most part I was completely confused as to what to do. To make things worse he had a partner in crime who emulated his style of play, but was a bit tighter with the hands he played. Not sad about the money lost during the session, just wasn't sure what style to play against those people.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hello Kipperkalle!

      As for the pre-flop play vs. a LAG, I suggest using the approx. chart 3 (3-betting according to oponnent's PFR) in order to make the best decisions (you should have the access to the chart already even though you're only silver, just search the forums a bit, or you can add me on skype: b-boy-fire and I can send it to you :) ).

      Regards,

      Primzi
    • kipperkalle
      kipperkalle
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2009 Posts: 126
      I'll do some research and turn to you Primzi should I fail to find it. :)
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hello!

      Found it:

      xxx

      Regards,

      Primzi
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      If you are unsure how to proceed preflop then ther is no shame in getting tighter. Sure your winrate against him would be tighter if you adapt perfectly to his PFR but these players will give you enough value even if you play tighter against them. You lower your winrate as well as your variance. That is not even that bad as the variance might become that high that you start tilting and if that happens he got what we wanted and you start losing money to him.

      Postflop you should be passive with your draws and highcards (A-high is often good enough to see a showdown.)
      And with your good hands you can play very aggressive to abuse his aggressivness.
      In short: overplay your good hands and underplay your weak hands.


      I'm sorry that I had to remove the link Primzi posted but our system wouldn't work if we don't restrict our content by levels (bronze, silver, gold, etc.).
      The bronze chart is almost the same as the approx chart just without the accurate reactions to stats.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hello Cirith!

      Well I posted the link to that chart since SoyCD gave me the link to all the charts whilst I was silver and I think he said that the gold status wasn't neccessary to get to the chartss as the german people could access them. If this has changed than I am sorry for posting it, but I am quite sure that the german people still have a page where the links to all charts are and you don't need gold member status to access it.

      Regards,

      Primzi
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Wow if that is true then I'm sorry. :)

      EDIT: I asked SoyCD about it. I copied to your welcome thread. I don't have skype here maybe you can send SoyCD the link? :)
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hello!

      Which link should i sell him?

      Regards,

      Primzi
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hello everyone :) .

      :)
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Done that, will reply to the hello everyone thread when I recieve his answer (or I'll tell him to contact you).

      Primzi
    • kipperkalle
      kipperkalle
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2009 Posts: 126
      Went back yesterday and found couple of LAG's and figured I can’t avoid them in the long run, so best practicse against them. I think I saw my first tilt in my short poker career and that was pretty nasty. Played three hours and managed to get the biggest net loss thus far. For whatever reason, their looseness threw my game totally offbalance and the decisions I made were incredibly stupid.

      I’ll give it another go, but will try to play more ABC poker and use the advice I’ve gotten here and not trick myself into losing pots.