Are we gamblers?

    • tcs35
      tcs35
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      I was reading the GamCare forums and read some shocking blackjack and roulette stories where they are losing around $5000+. I am wondering whether we are gamblers? We have skill, we have bankroll management, we have experience and we can control our loses. Does that mean we are still gamblers? And does anyone have some bad poker gambling experiences?

      Maybe people could also post their effective tips to stop tilt and generally losing more money. If I lose big pots I will leave the table, turn off my computer and go on a walk around the village. Come back in an hour or so and I will review my play and depending on how I feel I will start again. I try to play only a few hours a day, but some of you proberly play a lot more. How many hours do you lot generally play?

      I am starting this thread to get a feel for other people and if anything comes close in the future I will no how to handle it because those forum posts really hit me and I don't want it to happen to me.
  • 25 replies
    • Djvandal
      Djvandal
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.04.2009 Posts: 115
      yes we are gamblers even though poker in itself is not gambling we do take chances on a risk reward basis we minimize risk through skill but there is still a gamble.

      There are systems that can be used to play profitable blackjack aswell (without counting cards)

      I have 2 stages of tilt
      stage 1 i gotta get my loss back now starts playing slightly looser and more aggressive if i notice this ill sit out a minute and breath maybe check email

      Stage 2 is rare but absolute donkey bad beats like runner runner long draws going all in on flop or quad 2's with 1 in hand all in on flop it literally feels like my blood is boiling body temp rises i get sweats and am furious and stupified at same time when i feel stage 2 coming i close my poker apps and have a walk around if i played the hand correct ill tell myself the goal isnt to win cash just play properly if i screwed up in the hand ill try and figure oout how to watch for same mistake again
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      I don't feel I am gambling at all. With the strategy from this site I feel like I am almost 100% guaranteed to win in the long run. I don't care if I lose money in one day or week, I'm pretty sure it will come back with interest.

      Tilt affects me now much less than when I started playing; prob because of some excellent psychology videos I've seen.
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Hi!

      Roulette and Blackjack involve absoultely no skill at all. (well you can card count in blackjack but still ^^ )

      Poker is different though because you can control some variables. You get to pick when you invest money, with what cards and maybe even against who.

      But i think the major difference that classes poker for me as not "gambling" is the fact that we dont play against "the house" we play against real people. Other people can make errors and we can take the expense. We can also perform "moves" and "bluffs" on certain players with stats. We can 4 bet bluff if we know they will fold 80% of the time to it.

      So to sum up, there is a certain edge to be had in poker because of the fact that we play against real people and not the house. Because we play against people who can make mistakes, if we make less mistakes than them in the long run then we can be profitable.

      But in blackjack or roulette in the long run the best you can hope for is breakeven because there is an even chance of winning the money. So you have to get lucky, to play profitable in the longrun ;)

      Edit: Although all of this, poker is still classed as gambling - but it can depend on what in your eyes is gambling ;)

      Regards,

      -Jack
    • Atoks
      Atoks
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Say what u want about poker, it's still based on chance. Granted u have tactics and strategies but u can not directly affect what card will turn up next on the board. The key to poker is employing correct tactics in given situations against a specific opponent. U can maximaze ur chances of wining and ur chances of having a positive expectation and this is the key to ur profit. But in it's core people playing poker are gamblers because we make our decisions according to the chances we think we have of making money.

      However good poker players are good because they have experiences and skills which give them an edge over average and bad players. Good and even extremly good players gamble very rarely because they recognize the situation they are in a lot better then an average player (we are talking about marginal spots here not when one faces an obvius board). Bad players on the other hand do not play poker as much as they gamble with their money and the cards (which are usually the only two things they recognize at a poker table).

      Poker is a game and just like any other game skills, experience and other qualities can give u an edge over ur opponents even to the point where u hardly gamble with ur money.

      As for tilting u have to learn to control it if u want to make a decent profit in poker. Making interesting or even big amounts of money only stars when the blinds, buy ins or stakes are considerable. If u will be affected by ur emotions at a poker table to such a degree they will start influencing ur play u will never make a profit as a poker player. U will never win more money after u trash a few things that are close to hand and neither will u win more money if u will start to curse at people. U might win more money if u use the energy that would go for tilting into figuring out where things went wrong for u and if u did the right thing. Why on earth would u go ballistic if u know ur play was correct even if u get sucked out on? Be happy u got the opportunity to get ur money in good. Do that enough times and money will come on it's own.

      So to conclude: There are no downswings and no bad beats, there is just good and bad play. (not sure who said it and not sure where I saw it but it's a good thing to understand)
    • jupiterthegreat999
      jupiterthegreat999
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.03.2009 Posts: 64
      yes we are gambling. I play SSS. I pushed TT into a blind stealer today which is quite unusual move from me. I thought this guy is good, so he knows I am tight, so he is probably trying to steal and I am going to push with TT. I am probably ahead. He migh be holding Ax. He called and turned over AQ and didn't hit. I took a chance, that was gambling. I would have looked pretty stupid if he turned over a bigger pocket pair, but I thought that was unlikely, so I gambled.

      Poker is gambling. If you invest 1 pound on a hand with 90% of winning 2 pound, you are still gambling, because you can still lose. The fact you think you are favourite or have postive EV does not change the fact you are gambling.
    • Djvandal
      Djvandal
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.04.2009 Posts: 115
      Originally posted by kingdippy2008


      Roulette and Blackjack involve absoultely no skill at all. (well you can card count in blackjack but still ^^ )


      But in blackjack or roulette in the long run the best you can hope for is breakeven because there is an even chance of winning the money. So you have to get lucky, to play profitable in the longrun ;)

      I disagree here blackjack there are strict if this card comes and dealer has x do this and you can expect to come out ahead

      I believe it was one of doyle brunson's books cant recall the name but it covered all card games was not supersystem 1 or 2 were you can use a betting system in conjunction with with betting strategy were you are risking minimal amounts of your cash ie 1 bet win 1 bet win 2 bet win 2 bet win until you lose a hand then start back at one

      this way you are making profit and risking little of your own dollars

      I believe black jack to be only slightly more of a gamble than poker

      roulette black/red is 50/50 odd/even i believe odds are slightly lower 48.5/48.5 in that range
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Of course poker is gambling, as others have said but how you play the game determines whether or not you have a problem.

      For me, and i think most people on this site, following a strategy and concentrating on gaining a real edge over your opponents by playing a mathematically correct game stops any gambling urges from coming to the surface.

      In order to have a proper gambling problem you would be chasing hands with a 50/50 or less chance of hitting for no reason other than an urge to make some money or whatever... I've probably not explained myself too well but I don't think anyone who concentrates on playing a mathematically correct game will end up with a gambling problem - The game becomes a science rather than playing off gut feelings.

      As an example, last night in a tourney i had KK and push all in to villains re-raise... He turns over QT, there is a Q on the board so i have him beat - What do the turn and river bring??? QT lol full house and i'm stuffed. Villain could well have a gambling problem - I just shrugged it off knowing that the more that same play happens the more money i'll make. I didn't then start pushing all in with shit trying to get my chips back, i just carried on playing properly... I think when you start chasing with nothing then you need some help!
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Originally posted by Djvandal
      Originally posted by kingdippy2008


      Roulette and Blackjack involve absoultely no skill at all. (well you can card count in blackjack but still ^^ )


      But in blackjack or roulette in the long run the best you can hope for is breakeven because there is an even chance of winning the money. So you have to get lucky, to play profitable in the longrun ;)

      I disagree here blackjack there are strict if this card comes and dealer has x do this and you can expect to come out ahead

      I believe it was one of doyle brunson's books cant recall the name but it covered all card games was not supersystem 1 or 2 were you can use a betting system in conjunction with with betting strategy were you are risking minimal amounts of your cash ie 1 bet win 1 bet win 2 bet win 2 bet win until you lose a hand then start back at one

      this way you are making profit and risking little of your own dollars

      I believe black jack to be only slightly more of a gamble than poker

      roulette black/red is 50/50 odd/even i believe odds are slightly lower 48.5/48.5 in that range
      hmmm well i would rather pick poker over those systems! :p

      But yes i forgot in roulette that it is less than 50/50 because there is the 0 and 00 which isnt red or black, isnt in any half or dozen or whatever.

      But i wouldnt be sure about blackjack systems, if they work it would be a very minimal profit - otherwise why would casinos offer it?

      Regards,

      -Jack
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      I'm a gambler, but as long as I win at it it's kinda fine.
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      Or are we dancers?

      On a serious note I think a lot of people came with some good arguments in here. Just had to post the Killers song line, cause it was my first thought :P
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by jupiterthegreat999
      yes we are gambling. I play SSS. I pushed TT into a blind stealer today which is quite unusual move from me.
      You are obviously way too tight in blindsteal situations. TT is nearly always a resteal. ;)
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      with me It's never a gamble baby (I lose always)
    • TheLastNail
      TheLastNail
      Black
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 6,024
      whole life is a crual, merciless bitch of gambling.. where only fittest /=best adjusted to swings/ survive, so yep, what would u expect of poker?
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      first of all you should think about what the word 'gamble' means.

      imo you can decide whether you want to gamble or not. in poker the following is the case: if you're playing against your BRM, you're gambling. if you're playing despite not having (actually 'thinking you have' would be correct here instead of 'having', but that may confuse matters) an edge over the table you're playing at sufficient to beat the rake, you're gambling. if neither of those apply, you're not gambling.

      but obviously i'm presupposing a specific meaning of the word 'gamble', so the above may not apply given other usages of the word.
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      You might be able to find your answer here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling

      Then you can decide yourself if you think poker falls under that. :)
    • mishkagg
      mishkagg
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      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 1,354
      IMO when there's a game where money is being wagered and there's the element of luck it's gambling.
    • roswellx
      roswellx
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      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      just like Yoghi, don't care as long as I win...
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      Originally posted by mishkagg
      IMO when there's a game where money is being wagered and there's the element of luck it's gambling.
      yes but the general population's idea of gambling is not what we do here at PS.com
    • themagpiespg
      themagpiespg
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2009 Posts: 280
      Yes poker is gambling as any game that involves an element of chance is gambling, but if you play correctly you stack the odds in your favor so the outcome is a profit in the long run.


      Unlike casino games where the odds are always stacked against you, and in the long run you lose all your money.


      Thus poker if played correctly is like being a bookie and you never see a poor bookie. :s_biggrin:
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