Same question with example

    • Gennady007
      Gennady007
      Silver
      Joined: 25.05.2009 Posts: 31
      Ok I made a little thread and Primzi tried his best to help me answer the question but it still stays.

      Lets assume only the begginer basic fixed limit strategy article : Turn and River

      Now we have this situation:

      Hero QK

      Hero raises, 4 callers - flop time

      Q59

      Hero bets , 2 caller, one raise, hero calls - turn time

      q592

      hero checks, one bet, hero calls - river time

      Q592A

      ^^ this is what I was talking about primzi, Is this now considered ''not a made hand'' and is therefore check/muck OR is this now:

      ''YOU DO NOT HAVE THE INITIATIVE

      If you had a top pair or overpair on the flop or on the turn which you only called, you also only cold call an eventual bet on the river. In case several opponents show strength by betting/raising, you are more often than not behind and should fold. ''

      Please just talking from the article's point of view and nothing else
  • 5 replies
    • Gennady007
      Gennady007
      Silver
      Joined: 25.05.2009 Posts: 31
      One more thing :

      when it says in the article about the turn that with the initiative you bet draws with 2ops or less and check these draws with 2+ops to eventually call a bet - are both the gutshot, and overcards included in these ''draws''?

      Edit (Last thing :) ) :

      once again initiative - check draws with 2+ ops to eventually call a bet - so obviously this brings back the second question firstly. secondly - does this mean that if there is exactly one more bet after us we call it no matter what if we have the initiative, regardless of the ONE BET BEHIND YOU rule, where we only call monster/flush/oesd/d.gut and call a gutshot 10:1 pot odds?

      I needed these things cleared up, I want to play with only basic for now, just to make it second nature and then add odds/out and advanced bronze articles. I am making a steady profit this way but need to clear these things up.
    • TheBu11d0g
      TheBu11d0g
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      Moved to Fixed Limit Strategy Discussion
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hello!

      Your example - I'm guessing that two oponnents fold on turn?

      Well it is still considered a made hand, the basic articles tell you that a made hand is top pair good kicker + but that's incorrect - a made hand is pair+.

      Of course you have to c/c that river, I mean why should the oponnent have an ace? There really is no reason for us to fold that river. Since he only called preflop he probably has a hand like KQ, QJ, QT or even a worse queen. He'd raise AQ preflop but since there's a possibillity he has two pair or better we just call down. And yes, that's the example for only calling a top pair on turn and calling river with it.

      Second question:

      You should only bet strong draws on turn with initiative (OESD or flush draw) and check/call overcards (need 1:7 pot odds) and gutshot (need 1:10 pot odds) according to odds and outs. It's not very precisely written in the article, I agree. The video example tells us to bet STRONG draws though (overcards/gutshot are considered weak draws).

      Third question:

      You should only call according to odds and outs (you shouldn't call a bet with a gutshot if you're not getting 10:1 pot odds and overcards if you're not getting 7:1 pot odds).

      I hope everything is cleared up now :) .

      Regards,

      Primzi
    • Gennady007
      Gennady007
      Silver
      Joined: 25.05.2009 Posts: 31
      EDIT - now on beginer forum
    • Gennady007
      Gennady007
      Silver
      Joined: 25.05.2009 Posts: 31
      Same as above