# math on 2 suited cards , ace high

• Bronze
Joined: 09.12.2006
So like i was asking on the coaching , id like to know for example on nl25 , if my hand is something like A/8 A/T or A/J suited , and an opponent raises to 4BB (1\$) how many opponents should get involved in the hand for me to call for flush value (or possibly outs on other ways like 2 pair trips etc). Either if i have already posted a blind , or if i need to call the full 4 blinds
• 3 replies
• Black
Joined: 21.02.2006

This is a preflop chart, showing which odds you would need to call preflop to flop a flushdraw or Twopair+.

A8s is in the Categorie "Any 2 Suited", meaning we would need 5.5 odds to call to hit a flushdraw or Twopair+

So we would need at least odds of 5.5:1 to play such a hand with our small Stack to hit a Hand, meaning at least 5 people calling the raise!

Problems:
- Someone behind us could reraise
- If we hit our Ace we have big reverse implied odds, because we don't know if our hand is best or not.
- With the flushdraw we still only win in like 33% of the cases.

- With so many players, we often get good enough odds to get All-In on the flop with a flushdraw with our shortstack.
- You have good implied odds when flopping Twopair+, even though your stack is not big enough to get paid off enough.

We ignore many of the Postflop factors, but I think we can do the call with 4 callers of the Raise, if we are in late position and the probability of a reraise is low enough (tight players behind us, we are in late position).

I don't think this situation will occure really often but in general, calling big raises as a shortstack is a poor play.
• Bronze
Joined: 09.12.2006
very interesting chart. So in case there is a raise before us , which are the best cards that we could flat call with? The SSS is all about raising first , reraising only with very strong hands , and folding. There is no flat call in any case.
So i wonder , of those cards where the SHC says fold if there is a raise , if there are some that are worth playing , in case there are enough people in the hand.
The above chart says about suited connectors , would that really mean that 4/5 suited is more powerful than A/Q suited or A/J suited when there is a raise before us ?
• Black
Joined: 21.02.2006
The Problem with AT and AJ are that they are often dominated if there is a Raise in front of us, especially if it comes from early position.
And when Flopping toppair we are not going to get away with our small stack and so we have what we call "reverse implied odds" with such hands.
With the suited connectors you have an easy play postflop, as you will only play if you hit a flush-,straightdraw or twopair+.
And you miss the point, that AQs for example falls under "suited one gapper" or maybe reduce it to "suited two gapper" because of the lower straight chance over the Ace.

Of course the low suited Connecters have disadvantages too, as the flush will not necessarly be best if you get it, because there might be an Ace- or King-high-flush out there.

Overall the SSS really focusses on the preflopplay, as I always tell in my Coaching too. And as low connecters have low preflop value we are not really playing them. Our main focus is always to get in with a better hand than our opponents and to have a big portion of our stack invested preflop already!

But this is an interesting topic which needs some fine-tuning because there is not really anything written about this yet. (Of course the situations doesn't arise that often, so the focus is on other topics.)