SSS - General questions / problems (LOONG)

    • Vanbelle
      Vanbelle
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2007 Posts: 82
      Hello,
      i am quite new to PokerStrategy and I started playing the extended Short Stack Strategy as i found it quite interesting because its hard to form rules for no limit hold'em in general cause it is extremly situational.
      Anyway after i found this site i started playing this strategy with my cousin. We both use Teamspeak to discuss our descisions. Its easier to spot someone else's mistakes if he hes planning on making one i think. So far we both experience variances not are not extrem yet alarming as we both dont see any winning tendency. We only played over 1k raked hands together so far. I know that is definately not enough from the mathematical point of view to talk about average related topic like poker winning. But i have seen many people here posting about constant losses with SSS. The usual answers are "You have to be patient" (always true in poker, i know) or "you are probably doing something wrong, post some hands" (i love the sample hands section. I read a lot there and the answers are always nice).
      I am down to 42 dollars now. My high peak was 53 dollars, close to the beginning. In between i was down to 46 and came back to 49 i think. In my last session i fell down to 42.
      My cousin started constantly losing. Fell down to 48, came back a little, fell down to 44 and is now back around 49 i think.
      Alright, as i said i know that we have to be patient, and variances are totally normal. I also think i can come back from my 42 maybe but i dont see to make constant winning. I understand that from the mathematical point of view teh SSS guarantees to win over the long term and thats why i found it so interesting, but so far it doesnt seem to work for us on the lower limits. We are both playing NL10. I am quite sure we both dont make common mistakes. We have played on a different Poker Network before. I for myself have read a few Poker books like Gordon, Brunson, Sklansky... Gordon 3 times as i found it the most usefull for no limit ringgames. We both understand the concepts of position play, pot/implied/reverse odds (only pot odds required in SSS). I would also say that i can distinguish between a good and a bad (dangerous) board pattern. This is definately not enough to be good in poker and that is why we are here :) We both werent confident with our play even though we made small winnings on NL25 with Big Stacks, but there was no real confidence. But this very little experience we have definately helps minimizing mistakes made with SSS, as both think to have understood how to play it.
      We have both the starting hand chart printed out. I havent played a single hand different to the chart for sure! I have definately made mistakes. I know of 2 mistakes that cost me 2 dollars in total and i know of one mistake that actually gained me a 1.50. I also dont think i have been extremly unlucky. I havent lost to smaller pockets yet, neither have i won with smaller ones vs overpockets :) I seem to catch my 1/3 of flushes and OESDs.
      Today when i lost the most i actually didnt even lose it by going all in. The most problems i had was doing continuation bets.
      I have AK UTG, rase to 0.40. CO calls.
      The flop cames something low like 4 5 8 (i had 3 of these flops with AK and AQ). The pot is 0.95. I have to bet 1/2 pot according to the SSS. They either raised or called me. When called and i didnt made my hand on the turn i had to check. They bet into me im out.
      So far i have made the same experience all the time but today it extreme cause maybe i was unlucky and didnt hit the flop often enough. The people on NL10 i play dont like to fold a hand for 40 or 50 cent after they callt a raise preflop. They like their hand. Maybe few of them hit their small pockets, maybe they were too bad to reraise with TT or higher. Its hard to believe all of them did and its also hard to believe they all had Ax and flopped TPTK. I personally think i had the best hand with AK there few times but this bet just looks weak and those people love their K9s or J10o. I also thing it is bad to depend the bet size on the strength of the hand. This is a betting pattern any decent player in NL is looking for in his opponents. Ok the extended SSS offers a little more variance there, as it proposes to bet 2/3 instead of pot size when there is no draw on the board and you have a made hand. I even got a few check raises when i was in position and made a continuation bet.
      Dont get me wrong. I dont say i should only bet when i have something. This is of course worse (in general) and when i played Big Stack i tried to stick to phil gordon's ideas on continuation bets. I even thin this might work better on NL25 or NL50 as people tend to see the money on microlimits. It seems to be a difference to them wether they put 5 BB on NL10 (50 cent) or on NL25 (1.25) into the pot.

      Wow this posting has become long and i am sorry to take you time here :) At the moment i am just a little afraid this SSS might not work for me and i already wasted 1/5 of the money YOU gave to me as a gift!!! I really really dont wanna lose my gift. I am gonna watch the TeamSpeak coaching on SSS. I think its on tuesday but i am already about to switch to the Big Stack Strategy that is offered here or to FL as i found it quite Interesting what Stefan (headadmin) wrote about it here in the forum.
      I am gratefull for any reply here no matter if its hard critics. Anything will help :)

      Best regards, Barbara
  • 15 replies
    • Guillaumelittle
      Guillaumelittle
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2007 Posts: 11
      I know what are you talking about we got to be patient. My high peak was 104$ in 4 days... but then i start to loose and loose until i hit 69 >.<. now im playing more according to the chart and im going to see what happen in the next day i just hope my bankroll gives me that 600 raked that i need to get my 100$.

      regards :)
    • FlaviaMomo
      FlaviaMomo
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2007 Posts: 54
      Definitely know what u mean. I was just about to make a new post about SSS theory, but im gonna put this under a reply to your thread:

      First my stats:
      I think i have 20k hands playing SSS (made some calculations without PT)
      playing NL10 i think i made 400 dollars
      playing NL25 i think i lost 200 dollars

      what the hell?! What's so different playing SSS from NL10 to NL25 !?

      last week i reread all the SSS theory on the site. Some things that i think were leaking money i stopped doing, like bluffing on headsup pots, or semibluffing in multiway pots.
      I stopped using the advanced starting hand chart for SSS too, cause i think it was a major leak in my uNL games.

      ok, so i played more hands in NL10 and NL25, and got almost the same result (big winner in NL10 but looser at NL25). Ok, i played just 3k NL10 and 1k NL25...

      I remember asking Alaton in one of the coaching sessions i attended (awesome coachings btw, just not frequenting it anymore cause i find more useful to post hands at the moment), about playing draws, but i still don't understand:

      If you have a made hand on the flop, top pair or better, or a drawing hand like a flush draw, OESD, or a monster draw, then your objective is to go all-in. You have a strong hand and you want to put all your money on it if possible.
      i think that going allin with flush draws and OESDs were a major leak in my game too. Maybe im just mathematically wrong, but thats my experience.

      what do you guys think?
    • Guillaumelittle
      Guillaumelittle
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2007 Posts: 11
      If i were u ill keep playing NL 10, i have like 10k hands and i just earned like 10$ ( earned like 40$ then lost like 40 again and so and so.) The only good thing is that im improving my game.
    • FlaviaMomo
      FlaviaMomo
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2007 Posts: 54
      hm, i made the calculations again and i think i have around 50k hands. Just to let you know.
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      First of all welcome to our board Vanbelle.

      As you perhaps already know i am not an NL expert but i played the SSS for quite a while.

      But me before i go on i would like to suggest the folowing articlel: Proffessional Attitude

      The problem which is described here quite well is that as a beginner it is hard for you to decide if you played your hands good or bad. The only thing you can measure your success is your money. But for poker this is completly wrong.

      The absolutly best thing on the world you can do to improve your poker skills in general and to control your game regular is to make session reviews.

      We have a free service here and sometimes i don't understand why people don't use it regular. Post your sample hands. Use our Grabber Tool and collect EVERY damn hand you are not sure about post it into our boards.

      We will answer every hand here and we want to help you to improve your game, but you also have to give us the chance to do this.

      So don't get me wrong this is not directed to you Vanbelle it is more directed to everybody in general ... .

      i think i will make a post in general about that issue.

      anyway but lets get back to your actual concern.

      You are worried that the SSS is not the right thing for you. And i think that is quite understandable. But anyway according to what you wrote it sounds like you played a few hands and you are still somewhere around $50!

      Or like you said:"...as we both dont see any winning tendency."

      And although that is what you said already but 1k hands is not alot especially not for the sss ;)
      And anyway you are playing break even after 1k hands in a strategy you never tried before that is not that bad, eh?

      So my epxerience in general tells me one thing.
      When you decide to start with poker and you start to play NL cash games with the BSS the risk of going broke quickly is too high compared to the SSS.

      So like you said you should have definetly watch Alaton's Coaching tonight. It is awesome.

      But perhaps one hint from me is to join only tables where you have at least one other player with the SSS.

      But like i already said in another thread you should play the strategy you feel most comfortable with. Playing in your own comfort zone is such an essential factor at poker, it is unbelieveable. When you think you would do better with the big stack strategy, damn why not give it a try :D . especially when you tell me you read Phil Gordons littel green book.

      Test it and then see how it works out for you.

      In general i still recommend to start with the Short Stack Strategy (SSS) at least just to get a feeling for Poker, for NL, for hand values, for the software, for board structures and so on. But i will not neglect that for some people perhaps the Big Stack Strategy is better.

      So i would suggest:

      Play a minimum of another 1-2k hands with the SSS. Then reevaluate what to do next.

      In some lines my comments sounded a bit hard perhaps but that wasn't ment personaly. I am just trying to help.

      Best regards,
      Stefan
    • FlaviaMomo
      FlaviaMomo
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2007 Posts: 54
      Originally posted by Stefan1000
      We have a free service here and sometimes i don't understand why people don't use it regular. Post your sample hands. Use our Grabber Tool and collect EVERY damn hand you are not sure about post it into our boards.

      We will answer every hand here and we want to help you to improve your game, but you also have to give us the chance to do this.
      You are gonna regret to say this :D
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      hehe i hope so :D

      Anyway, post as much hands as possible, it is for free and it is simply the most efficient way to increase your poker skills.

      Our goal is to keep up a 24hour reply time. And when you are posting too many sample hands no problem for us we will add another pro from the german board helping evaluate your hands.

      Best regards,
      Stefan
    • FlaviaMomo
      FlaviaMomo
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2007 Posts: 54
      alright, reviewed me session from yesterday, had about 3500k hands at NL10, have doubts in 30+-, posted 9 today and when u guys reply i'll post more 9. Or do you think its better to post all of them at once?
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      like you want to ...
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      The only thing that you could do is when you post these masses of hands perhaps put some more hands together, just so the hands of the other players and always pushed to page no2.

      That would be cool but not a must.

      I hope you like this service

      And i am really happy to see that you take use of it, it will help your game sooo much.

      Best regards,
      Stefan
    • Ligarius
      Ligarius
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.03.2007 Posts: 1,236
      hi, yesterday i receive my 50$ bonus gift

      i read all SSS, and i follow all steps and in my first 150 hands i win 8$, maybe is too much for 150 hands, maybe a lucky factor work for me :P

      but i understand you Vanbelle, is soooooooooooo hard fold KJ or AT, and later lose with a KQ or AJ, but i learn if you don't fold thats hands, they cost you many money, or if you raise AK, AQ and the flop don't show anything good is very difficult fold thats hand

      but i say you the same thing that a friend tell me on the first of my carreer :rolleyes:

      discipline and patience....

      good luck on the future
    • kimzi78
      kimzi78
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2007 Posts: 3
      i will ask here. where can i see how many raked hands i already played? thx
    • Ligarius
      Ligarius
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.03.2007 Posts: 1,236
      in party in bonus section go to in bonus detalis you can see the raked hands pending
    • kimzi78
      kimzi78
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2007 Posts: 3
      hmmm, i dont know why, but i cant find. can u tell me more accurately where to search please? i paste screenshots...

      http://shrani.si/files/1xci5.jpg

      http://shrani.si/files/2xci6.jpg
    • Stefan1000
      Stefan1000
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      Hi kimzi78,

      The problem is your bonus is not active!

      So what you should do know is just right a simple mail to bonus@partypoker.com and tell them to activate your bonus.

      That should work.

      Best regards,
      Stefan