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[NL20-NL50] NL25 SH A7o TP and later a set

    • koaesica
      Joined: 31.08.2008 Posts: 1,066
      Known players:

      0,1/0,25 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by

      Preflop: Hero is BU with 7:heart: , A:diamond:
      MP3 folds, CO calls $0,25, Hero raises to $1,25, 2 folds, CO calls $1,00.

      Flop: ($2,85) A:heart: , J:spade: , 2:club: (2 players)
      CO checks, Hero bets $1,75, CO raises to $3,75, Hero calls $2,00.

      Turn: ($10,35) A:club: (2 players)
      CO checks, Hero checks.

      River: ($10,35) 5:diamond: (2 players)
      CO bets $5,75, Hero calls $5,75.

      Final Pot: $21,85

      Is checking behind on the turn and just calling the river too weak? I didn't see him as a very aggressive player.
  • 6 replies
    • SheepMoose
      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      His check raise looks SUPER strong if you ask me. He played this like he had a small pocketpair IMO. Than again with his stats you never know.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Without a specific read on his flop minraise I like your line, this is way ahead/way behind.

      When he raises the flop, he has

      - some random hand he's turning into a cheap bluff, could even be as strong as Jx he probably doesn't realize what he's doing, likely 5 outs maximum.
      - something he's doing that for value with but that you crush, namely worse Ax, 3 outs.
      - something he's doing that for value with that crushes you, namely A2, 22, AJ or any better Ax. You have 3 outs maximum.

      With a better read you can certainly dump it on the flop against really passive opponents, however i don't mind the peel here, that guy has 66 vpip so his AF of 1.2 isn't that low. And he made it a minraise+1bb, that's just weird :p

      This was certainly not the situation you were looking for when you isoraised him, so making sure you don't stack off bad here by checking behind the turn is fine. If he doesn't have an ace he's probably not calling a turn bet from you, and if he has an ace he's gonna c/r you again. SO if you gets stacks in you're probably behind (A2, A8-AK vs A3-A6 ), that's not the kind of situation where you're looking to get all the fish's money.

      When he bets 1/2 on the river you probably have to look it up, as you've shown weakness on the turn and he might decide to take a stab at it again if he was bluffing on the flop. He might even have decided that his Jx was good because another A appeared so you're less likely to have one, plus you didn't bet the turn. And of course he still might have a worse Ax.
    • BogdanDin7
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Nice analysis as always by tamairlarace ;p

      However I don`t think he will bluff that flop. Even if 1.2 for 66 vpip is not that low it`s still on the passive side and I think that`s not a very good flop for a bluff since the A is something you are really representing.

      I think he either has an Ace or a set here. Still I would also call and reevaluate because he might still have a worse ace here.

      After that checking behind turn / call river or b/f turn for free river are both good I think. I don`t see him c/r turn again with a worse A.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7

      After that checking behind turn / call river or b/f turn for free river are both good I think. I don`t see him c/r turn again with a worse A.

      I don't really see what worse hands he would call a turn bet with but not bet the river himself or check and call a river bet from us.

      Since we're not planning on betting/calling twice anyway because our hand isn't that strong, i'd prefer to avoid tricky spots against players that have logic flaws, by just checking behind the turn and calling/betting the river.

      For example, if we bet the turn and he raises, he might still do that with a worse ace if he's not thinking about our hand. Like, he plans to raise again because he has trips A, after all that's a very good hand, who cares what the other guy has. If he gets called again alarm bells might go off and he will likely c/c the river, but we won't be there to see the showdown as we're folding to the turn raise. Risking to get blown off the best hand with no real upside sucks.

      It also has the advantage that we pickup some extra money when he is indeed bluffing, even if we both believe it to be rather unlikely, no matter how small, some part of every range has to be air.
    • BogdanDin7
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      After seeing it trough again makes sense to check behind against guys like this. I guess trips ace are nuts for a guy like him and it`s clear we want to go for pot control so checking behind might be better.

      But yet again a guy who tells himself , got trips , whithout considering what our hand is might still call with smthing like KJ,QJ sometimes there.

      Still checking behind looks better. No need to build a big pot against fish in spots like this.
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      he often has there Ax, so I think check behind is fine and calling river bet
      if you´re betting then imo it should be bet/shove and since your kicker is not the best, then taking passive line is fine