[NL20-NL50] Nl50Sh Jj

    • Katavich
      Katavich
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 176
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($48.50)
      BB ($35.60)
      UTG ($32.12)
      UTG+1 ($89.90)
      CO ($45.88)
      BTN ($35.11)

      Dealt to Hero J:club: J:diamond:

      UTG calls $0.50, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.25, fold, UTG calls $1.75

      FLOP ($5) 5:diamond: 6:heart: 7:spade:

      Hero bets $3.25, UTG calls $3.25

      TURN ($11.50) 5:diamond: 6:heart: 7:spade: 9:spade:

      Hero bets $6.75, UTG calls $6.75

      RIVER ($25) 5:diamond: 6:heart: 7:spade: 9:spade: 2:heart:

      Hero checks, UTG bets $19.87 (AI)
      Hero?

      He is 31/0/1.0/39
  • 4 replies
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      I'm assuming you tailored your bet sizing to get this halfstack guy all-in by the river, which would account for your relatively small raises/bets, so i won't pull any "make it bigger" stuff on you.


      On that board you only beat T9, TT and bluffs. It's very possible that he limp/called a pocket pair, so i think shoving is really really thin because you'll get called always but you're beat most of the time.

      Loose passive guys are a bitch to read, as their calling range is virtually everything, you can't entirely discount monsters just because you didn't get raised.
      When they do bet tho, their range tends to be rather polarized between the nuts and nothing, as the only time they feel the need to bet without having a very strong hand is usually when their draws missed. With any reasonable made hand they're mostly happy to see a showdown.

      When you check and he shoves, he either has a set, a straight, maybe even a better overpair because he never raises preflop, or air. T9 would likely check behind you, as would TT. I don't really see what air he could have that he would bluff with, unless it's exactly 44 for a busted OESD, or random overcards that he floated with twice.


      Some would argue that a certain type of loose passive guy would try and milk you with a smaller bet if he really had the nuts and would only shove air in that spot, but without any specific read i think the air part of his range is way smaller then the monster one on that board, so i would also c/f that river.


      Hope it helps somehow.
    • Katavich
      Katavich
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 176
      I decided to call because of his high WTSD and 25% W$SD and I needed to win only ~30%. That would in normal situation be c/f, but I noticed that fish's like him often bluff there with Ax and similar.Even that he has low AF, I called because of his low W$SD thinking that he could bluff with Ax. He had K8 :( . But I agree with you, Ii should fold there, there are not many cards that he could bluff with.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      Most of the showdown stats on loose passive players are skewed toward them just calling down, once they start betting strong on their own you should be really careful not to misinterpret those in the heat of the action. Especially since these days people tend to know not to fuck with those guys when they do bet or raise, so really all the stats you have are mostly from them getting valuetowned.

      What i do sometimes when their bet just doesn't feel right is to check if they have a big discrepancy between their turn fold to bet (very low) and river bet frequency (very high) over an okay sample. To me that means that once they decide to call the flop they also call the turn, and they can't always have a big hand on the river, because they are loose passive players after all, they call the flop with utter trash very often. So if they almost always fire the river, they're bound to have air there more often than usual, unless they're just pure luckboxes.

      Hope that makes sense. Maybe i'm overthinking those stats, and i certainly don't base my decisions on just that, but that seems to work well until now in those kind of situations against loose passive players. If anybody thinks i'm dead wrong on that one please share your thoughts.


      Hope it helps somehow.
    • Bierbaer
      Bierbaer
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2005 Posts: 7,989
      I'd check/fold the turn. This Board hits his range extremely hard, he won't fold any kind of 2pair and he could very well have a straight.
      A bet on the turn is a pure bluff.