[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH JJ overpair facing big action on dry board

    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      villain stats 48/10/AF 2.5/ WTS 21/ 83hands

      $0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
      6 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG Hero ($11.41)
      UTG+1 BioEngAz ($10.00)
      CO Mayoroff ($10.24)
      BTN Rotti ($4.60)
      SB j2geek ($12.45)
      BB lucatoniITA ($3.29)
      [BioEngAz posted $0.1]

      Pre-flop: ($0.25, 6 players) Hero is UTG J:diamond: J:club:
      Hero raises to $0.50, BioEngAz raises to $0.90, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.40

      Flop: 7:spade: 9:heart: 5:club: ($1.95, 2 players)
      Hero bets $1, BioEngAz raises to $4.90, Hero folds

      Final Pot: $7.85

      BioEngAz wins $7.66 ( won +$1.86 )
      Hero lost -$1.90

      thinking if my fold was a bit weak and if 3bet/shove would be better, but i had to think about his reraising range (preflop) then his really large reraise. i put him on some high pp like aces to queens, altho tens are also possible i guess. what do u think?
  • 8 replies
    • gummybeared
      gummybeared
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.11.2008 Posts: 138
      don't call pf, 4bet or fold
    • rickydaprince
      rickydaprince
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2008 Posts: 397
      Hello. I would call his 3bet preflop... JJ isn't a hand I like to 4bet with. On the flop, you should check/raise... he will definitely cbet and then you can raise. This will really test his hand.. if he reraises, then give up, because you are very likely behind. If he calls, you can consider 2nd barreling turn and hope for free showdown.
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      thanks for the input guys. JJ is something i will not always 4bet with thats true.
      c/r might be a good line to take on the flop. (then fold to reraise as u said). but i think raising and being reraised kind of tells me the same thing, right?
    • Joshquan
      Joshquan
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 479
      I prefer check/raising also because you get more value out of over cards which are very likely. Also, if you decide to lead then bet more , id say ~1.5 especialy in a 3-bet pot. Your bet is so small I think he is capable of bluff raising you and you have been forced to fold a better hand. Where as if you check/raise and then he re-raises he is never on a blufff and you can find an easy fold.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by rickydaprince
      Hello. I would call his 3bet preflop... JJ isn't a hand I like to 4bet with. On the flop, you should check/raise... he will definitely cbet and then you can raise. This will really test his hand.. if he reraises, then give up, because you are very likely behind. If he calls, you can consider 2nd barreling turn and hope for free showdown.
      You can't do this. Reason is you will have invested roughly 50% of your stack if you c/r the flop.

      If I have AA as villain I would c-bet flop, and if you raise me flat-call because I know your hanging yourself because of stack size etc. I could happily under bet flop on the turn so you get odds to call.

      I think b/f is a better line to take. There are not that many hands he can raise you with.

      However bet size is somewhat off.. bet 1.5$ atleast. He might put you on two face cards with that weak bet and raise other pps.

      If villain is a total fish you can ship it I guess. But 48/10 stats tells me he is passive and raises monsters.
    • rickydaprince
      rickydaprince
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2008 Posts: 397
      Why would you bet/fold against initiative? 90% of the time you'll get reraised because villain has initiative and think you are just donk betting. You don't even have to raise much to get them to fold because it is a 3bet pot... so you won't have invested 50% of your stack. If they flat call the 3et on flop, then it's clear he isn't folding and you should just play check/fold.

      Using your argument, if you donk bet on the flop, and he just flat calls, you wouldn't even know where you stand.. .and he could be holding AA and happily calls your bet. Then you're out of position on the turn, and if a small card comes, you'd likely bet also without any extra information.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      I don't presume he will raise just because he took initiative pre-flop.

      If he has 2 overs he will fold or call, if he has overpair he will raise. You can only beat TT.

      c/f after c/r seems weird, your turning you hand into a bluff... you could play 72o the same way then. I don't think its wise to c/r for information, its just way to costly in the long run.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      imo if you lead out you have to shove
      they sometimes have there QQ-AA, but also they could make some kind of move
      if you don´t want to bet/shove, then c/c flop, c/f turn seems better line