[NL20-NL50] NL 25: 3 bet KK pre-flop. A on flop.

    • theSandnamRo
      theSandnamRo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2008 Posts: 14
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $22.95
      CO:
      $29.56

      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:spade: , K:club:
      MP3 folds, CO raises to $0.81, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.10, CO calls $2.29.

      Flop: ($6.30) A:club: , J:spade: , 3:spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $4.00, CO calls $4.00.

      Turn: ($14.30) 5:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $7.46, Hero folds, CO gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $14.30

      =========================================


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $31.69
      BU:
      $25.00

      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:spade: , K:diamond:
      3 folds, BU raises to $0.85, SB folds, Hero raises to $3.25, BU calls $2.40.

      Flop: ($6.60) 5:diamond: , 3:spade: , A:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU checks.

      Turn: ($6.60) T:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $4.00, BU raises to $9.00, Hero folds, BU gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $14.60

      =====================



      I want to know witch is the correct play, Cbet or check/call on the Flop and if he checks behind what to do on different turn cards.

      Thank you.
  • 3 replies
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Always rebuy to 100bb.


      This is gonna be highly dependent on your opponent and his tendencies.


      Against an unknown out of position just c-bet/fold any A-high flop and be done with it on any turn, unless of course your improve. You won't make any huge mistake that way, and you get to choose the amount you risk, whereas if you go for a c/c they might just fire pot instead of whatever your actual c-bet size for 3bet pots is.


      Your first opponent seems rather loose passive, meaning he will likely call the flop with worse hands like any J, any flush draw, any pocket pair. What that means is against those players there might still be a lot of value in bet/folding a non-spade non-J turn, as they will call again with worse. Of course it's thin, but it's there. Plus if these guys raise you, you know you're toast right off the bat.


      Your second opponent looks like some random tag, so this gets tricky. You need some read to be able to see which play will yield the more value.

      - Some of them will fold to any c-bet on A-high flops, but will automatically assume you have air if you don't c-bet. They will fire on any flop or turn once you check it, and even more so if you check to them again on the turn. What that means is against these guys you are better off checking the flop to them oop and checking it behind ip, and then calling whatever bet they throw at you.
      What happens after that is hard to say, some of them will continue to fire air for 3 streets, others will simply shut down if they don't have an A and let you see a showdown. Without reads i'd probably only call 1 bet.

      - Others will tend to call your c-bet on A-high flops lighter, because they know you c-bet there with all your air. They will do that often especially if you tend not to fire again on the turn once they call your c-bet. In that case you should c-bet with KK, because they will call with whatever they called you preflop with. On a blank turn again it's hard to say, some of them will assume when you don't 2nd barrel that you have nothing and will be happy to check it down with you, others will try to take you off whatever you have by betting the turn. Again without reads i'd probably just c/f the turn UI.

      - Also be aware of the tags that c/r or raise the flop often, as you might often get blown off the best hand, so against them it's usually better check the flop to begin with. The same is true if you have some history and you feel like now might be the time for him to play back at you.



      You get the general idea, it's highly read dependent and you need some confidence in your play if you decide to stray from the c-bet/f line.
    • Bierbaer
      Bierbaer
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2005 Posts: 7,989
      Very good post of tamairlarace, he mentioned everything there is to say.
      If you have further questions feel free to unmark the hand again.
    • theSandnamRo
      theSandnamRo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2008 Posts: 14
      Thank you very much tamairlarace for your detailed answer. You helped me a lot.