[NL20-NL50] TT in 3-bet pot

    • Jhdan
      Jhdan
      Silver
      Joined: 12.06.2007 Posts: 555
      Opp: 30/27, 40 hands from Sweden
      Room: FTP

      So, what is the best line in likely situations?

      $0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
      5 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG Imarusso ($9.82)
      CO greenthink ($27.49)
      BTN Hero ($25.77)
      SB feejy16 ($13.07)
      BB Waggy90 ($20.63)

      Pre-flop: ($0.35, 5 players) Hero is BTN T: T:
      1 fold, greenthink raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, 2 folds, greenthink calls $2

      Flop: :5s: :6h: :2s: ($5.85, 2 players)
      greenthink checks, Hero bets $3.50, greenthink calls $3.50

      Turn: :4d: ($12.85, 2 players)
      greenthink checks, Hero checks

      River: J: ($12.85, 2 players)
      greenthink bets $7
      Hero?
      Final Pot: $19.85
  • 5 replies
    • Jaissica
      Jaissica
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      Villain doesnt have to have you beaten here to bet that. Since you checked behind the turn the obvious assumption is you hold AQs+ and havnt made a pair yet.

      You have to make the call.

      I dont like checking the turn. Such a loose player doesnt need a realistic draw to call that flop - any two overcards, any two spades, any gutshot draw, any pair and they will choo choo train their way to the calling station. If you check behind you arnt going to fold to a bet on the river easily, so why not bet the same anyway in a bet-fold line. The only real thing you gain from the check-behind is a 1/23 chance to suck out on a slowplayed set/2pair. Well, and it induces a bluff from pretty much any-2... which you have to call :)
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Crazy Swedish players, call them down !

      Seriously, his stats don't seem bad he's just laggy, which mostly means splashing around cheap and taking pots down in position. For him to flat a bet out of position he has to have something decent at least, especially if he's not planning on c/r'ing a flop like this.

      I'm not really fond of bet/folding the turn against that type of player, so i don't mind your line. He wouldn't bet the river with a middling made hand, i think he either has you beat or he has worse air then your perceived air, but i would expect such a player to raise a draw on that flop so i guess he can have you beat there relatively frequently. The bet is cheap which worries me, i would have expected him to make it bigger with air so that looks like a value bet to me, i know i'm calling since i decided to check the turn of course but i still hate it :D
    • Jhdan
      Jhdan
      Silver
      Joined: 12.06.2007 Posts: 555
      Thank yor for answer :) . So, what should i do if he ch/raised me on flop?
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Depend just how much credit i give him, which will be hard for you to tell over 40 hands i guess.


      If i think he's just a wannabe lag, calling 3bets with lots of stuff preflop without really knowing why and automatically making moves with any kind of overcards+gs hands on flops like this one that don't hit your range very well, i might just decide to call his raise and call the shove on any turn with the Ts. I would have had to see him do some stupid stuff first tho, anything to make me think he's overdoing his lag style.


      If i think he's a decent lag, the flat of the 3bet oop will worry me a lot more, and here is why. Lag players will screw around on these garbage flops quite often, and everyone knows that. Which means their opponents automatically put them on some kind of draw and decide to make a stand with their overpairs, even tho they are often up against something like overcards+FD that have massive equity against them, or just plain crushed by the occasional set. What they do to exploit that is flatting KK+ preflop, even tho they are out of position, to keep in all the stuff that would fold to a 4bet like AQ/TT-JJ possibly QQ, so that when people make a stand with their JJ on rag flops, the lags end up being way ahead anyway. Especially these days where everyone seem to agree that the flat of a 3bet in position is often AA planning to shove the flop over the c-bet pretending to be a draw, a flat out of position by somebody who knows what he is doing should ring even more alarm bells once he c/r the flop.

      So when a good lag raises that flop, committing himself with his flushdraws in the process, you have to worry not only that you can be up against something like 66 (~dead) or KsQs (flipping), but also KK+(~dead). I don't think the "but this is a weak fold, i have an overpair in a 3bet pot :( " argument is quite enough to justify going broke in that spot with one of the shittiest overpair against those guys at these stakes.


      Nowhere near an exact science of course, especially after only 40 hands, just some things to think about i guess. I would tend to think that a 30/27, raising almost every hand he has played so far and who apparently bought in for 100b, is not just some random donk, and err on the safe side.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      since opponent is aggressive I´d bet/shove the turn
      he could make there a lot of moves and you hold overpair
      I´d call river- he could be easily bluffing or valuebetting worse hands