[NL20-NL50] NL25sh 160bb deep - QQ vs strange move

    • PetterG2
      PetterG2
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 224
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $40,99
      MP2:
      $40,90
      MP3:
      $49,23

      0,1/0,25 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q:spade: , Q:heart:
      MP2 raises to $1,00, MP3 calls $1,00, CO folds, Hero raises to $4,30, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $12,50, Hero ?????????,

      Final Pot: $9,85

      What the heck does this means? I didn't have stats on him when the hand was played, but my first impression is that he was a bad player. Is this some kind of attemt to slowplay aces/kings (his first call) or is this just a fish who wants to get back at me for raising his 66/77 ?? Fold or push?
  • 2 replies
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      I wouldnt push, I would raise about 2.5x to $29-31 so that a bad player can call his AT+ or push his TT-JJ. Its hard for him to call your shove with a weak hand imo.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      In general


      This is gonna be a judgment call against an unknown, it could be anything really. I've seen people just shove QJo in that spot (maybe only 100bb deep but you get the point), not believe me or trying to bully me around.


      Some things to consider :



      * Was there a lot of 3betting/squeeze at the table since MP3 joined ?

      * How active have you been since MP3 got here ? Did you squeeze in the last two orbits ? Does he have any reason not to believe you ?


      These make people less likely to believe you, and more likely to try and play back somehow. Possibly make them more likely to slowplay premium hands too, hoping somebody will squeeze behind them.


      * MP3 has a 200bb stack, were you there when he doubled up ? What happened ? This can tell you a lot about him if you were paying attention. Did he slowplay a monster postflop, indicating he's trappy ? Or did he push garbage preflop and sucked out on somebody, indicating he's just impulsive and bad ?


      You're looking for any hint on his playing tendencies to help you make a decision.


      * Some people will do that with AK sometimes, figuring they want to keep worse Ax in the pot so they flat call the original raise, but then when you squeeze they don't want to just call the 3bet and play a bloated pot with it, because when they miss the flop they feel lost. So they revert back to their basic principle of "AK is the nuts preflop" and 4bet the squeezer, it's easier. It's also bad when you're deep tho, so it's less likely if he has a clue about the game.


      Still you're only flipping with AK, and you don't want to get that much money in preflop if you can't be sure you're better than a flip. Plus, chances are if they do that with AK then KK+ is also in their range.



      If you can't find any reason to play for stacks, just dump it, it's not worth finding out.


      Assuming he is bad


      If your read is that he is bad enough to be erratic preflop, then you want to stack off here with QQ.

      You won't have him committed if you just call the 4bet, and since you're out of position it would be harder to play postflop anyway. So you need to 5bet him.

      Here assuming he's trying to play back at you, he probably doesn't have a hand with which he wants to call a shove. Meaning if you 5bet big, he might still get away from it, whereas if you give him a chance to shove over, he might do it.

      I would 5bet him big enough to commit us both, and small enough to make him think he still has fold equity. It's hard to accomplish here with the stack sizes tho, i might just click it back hoping it tilts him :')

      Against the right type of player, keep in mind that they can be impulsive enough that their cards don't matter that much. They will try and bully you out, and then call a shove with any 2 just because they can't stand being pushed around and it looks like a rebluff.




      It's hard to make a clear cut decision, I hope I at least got you thinking on certain details.