Totally Sick of $1/2 SSS.

    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Today I was having a nice day today despite playing 2 hands in a completely retarded manner in my first session. However, it didn't end well;



      and this was all because of NL200;



      I'm getting so utterly sick of never catching an Upswing at this limit. I just bumble along at Break-Even then catch a horrible downswing getting coolered by ridiculous 2-pairs on flops or have my AK's owned by low PP's or retard hands that hit a pair on the flop.

      Then I bumble along for a bit longer at aproximately Break-Even before catching another Downswing etc.

      I'm 3 BI away from hitting my Stop-Loss I decided on at the beginning of May for this Limit (25 BI) but I think I'm going to give up already and finally go and get myself a Job (2 months after moving back to england) to stop myself playing Poker anymore. I'm slightly overrolled for NL200 having 150 BI currently, but I still think I'm going to quit.

      If I do play again I'm changing how I play for the tighter and concentrating on calling 3bets more. Heres some stats allthough it should be noted I've played 3 different styles in this sample so they may be a bit confuddled.

      I've annotated some stats with Low or High if they're different to other limits and some Question Marks on the stats I would exploit myself if I saw them on my HUD but have no idea on how to correct in my own game.

      Normal Stats; Vpip, 9.2. PFr, 8.6. 3bet%, 4.2. WTSD%, 41.8%. Agg, 2.67 (Low). Agg%, 16.8% (Very Low). Cbet Success% 47.2%, Cbet% Flop 66% (Low ?????)

      Stealing stuff; BB Reraise steal, 12.1%. Steal CO, 18.2% (delibaretly reduced to try and lower fold to 3bet stat), Steal BU, 25%.

      Vs 3bet; vs 3bet Fold, 68.9%(???), EP fold to 3bet, 60.4%. MP fold to 3bet 77.5%(???), CO fold to 3bet, 77.6%(????WTF?) BU fold to 3bet 58.1%,
  • 21 replies
    • excelgeo
      excelgeo
      Silver
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,107
      ok lets have a look, im probably goin to give shit advice but hey eventually i will get to be very well known for it.

      vpip looks a little low at 9.2, so i think you let them bully you.

      see if i get it right (i dont use hud)
      do you let them float you and then steal on the turn? maybe (and that is where my shit advice will come in) you should push the flop because with your 9% vpip your range is so tight that you are probably ahead.

      show a little agression, see how it goes.

      omg i may be eventually responsible for phunk moving down limits again.

      my 2 cents
      (probably worth exactly that)
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Maybe you should start giving BSS a try?
      SSS at those limits is pretty difficult I heard.

      Can't give any advice how to play SSS at those limits at all :(
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      Maybe dish out some money and get a private coaching from someone? Dunno if ingolmax or xarry do privates but if they do I'm sure you can learn a lot from them :) and since you're playing overrolled for nl200 I think you can afford it.
    • Yoghurt1973
      Yoghurt1973
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2007 Posts: 212
      Maybe go down a limit to 100NL(getting confidence back to play more agressive), be more agressive and steal more, table selection (nitty guys to you're left f.e.) and perhaps play less tables so you're reads get better (see better when tables getting nitty) and so you can push with more hands allin before the flop against callingstations.
    • Ishindar
      Ishindar
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      I think your issue may be with fold to 3 bet at 69% this could be too high. mine is 33% by comparison.
      surely as a SSS player u are ahead a lot of the time you are 3 betted?
      preflop steals and resteals are bread and butter profitmakers for the better players at that limit and im sure u will get 3 betted lightly with a stats like that.
      what is your criteria for calling a 3bet?
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by Ishindar
      what is your criteria for calling a 3bet?
      I normally push when i percieve 45% EQ against what I think their 3betting range to be. How I establish a 3betting range is different for different types of players;

      Fish; Just Use 3bet Stat

      Nits; Just Use 3bet Stat

      Regs; (Using Equity Charts) Decide whether they are adjusting to my (Often Loose) Isolating range against mega fish so they can 3bet looser.

      Decide whether they 3bet against my OR range, and If so look up my hand equity against a range that beats that range and call.

      Or Decide whether they 3bet against my Calling range and only call the best hands that beat the shoving range he would have to beat my restricted calling range. (Basically If I see his 3bet range is very narrow)

      If I face 2 3bets in a row from a Villain I tend to give him credit for the 2nd 3bet, but less for the 3rd 3bet in a row. Its very rare that I actually catch a villain 3betting me light.

      In Blinds; Call against 3bet stats of Blind, not against 1-FBBS. Call looser if my table image is 40% or higher by expanding percieved villain range by 5%.


      As For Restealing I've actualy gone backwards from trying to work out each individual case and just follow a resteal chart from a Steal/Resteal Article.

      Hands I steal with; PP's, Broadways, SC's 78+, A7+, Sometimes K8+. I don't steal Ace-Rag as often as I used to, and only do that against villains with a 90+ FBBS or lower FBBS if they fold 2 cbet a lot.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by excelgeo
      ok lets have a look, im probably goin to give shit advice but hey eventually i will get to be very well known for it.

      vpip looks a little low at 9.2, so i think you let them bully you.

      see if i get it right (i dont use hud)
      do you let them float you and then steal on the turn? maybe (and that is where my shit advice will come in) you should push the flop because with your 9% vpip your range is so tight that you are probably ahead.

      show a little agression, see how it goes.

      omg i may be eventually responsible for phunk moving down limits again.

      my 2 cents
      (probably worth exactly that)
      Lol, I used to play 12/9 at NL200. It was a conscious choice to play tighter. Maybe I made the wrong move. As for getting floated I worked out and tagged many regs who do it and I don't fold to floats as often as maybe I should. I also don't cbet on dry boards that are ideal to float a shortstacker on nowadays as well and often make moves on the turn when they try and bluff the scarecard.

      Oh, I 2nd barrel more as well. Sometimes 3barrel freeplays.

      Sometimes all of the constantly thinking Villains are bluffing me gets me in trouble though xD I think quite a few regs have learnt that I've become hard to float and don't do it versus me anymore.

      Thanks for all the comments Guys
    • Ishindar
      Ishindar
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      your criteria looks good to me. and i see u are already reducing your steal from co to reduce your fold to 3 bet so i think u know the problem already and are already fixing it. although its not an easy balancing act steals and resteals!
      the balance of steals and resteals even differs from site to site.
      atm whats working for me in general on stars and ftp is this
      i call a 3 bet against a tight 3 bette(PFR8) with AA AK KK QQ JJ 1010
      a medium tight with (PRF12) with AQ 99+
      a lose pfr i would consider calling with AA AK AQ AJ KK QQ JJ 1010 99 88 77 KQ KJ A10 A9 A8 A7
      assuming 3 bet is within normal proportions and not elevated in their position.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by Ishindar
      your criteria looks good to me. and i see u are already reducing your steal from co to reduce your fold to 3 bet so i think u know the problem already and are already fixing it. although its not an easy balancing act steals and resteals!
      the balance of steals and resteals even differs from site to site.
      atm whats working for me in general on stars and ftp is this
      i call a 3 bet against a tight 3 bette(PFR8) with AA AK KK QQ JJ 1010
      a medium tight with (PRF12) with AQ 99+
      a lose pfr i would consider calling with AA AK AQ AJ KK QQ JJ 1010 99 88 77 KQ KJ A10 A9 A8 A7
      assuming 3 bet is within normal proportions and not elevated in their position.
      I would do some work with an ev calc, I think you will find you are far far too loose
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      For how many hands have you been on this downer? Maybe you just have to be a little more patient?

      I mean, I know it's always easy to say this, but it's not so easy to keep cool when being negative for tens of thousands of hands. Still, we ought to improve our patience skills just as we imrpove our BRM moving up limits.:]
    • Ishindar
      Ishindar
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      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      quote: Originally posted by lennonac


      I would do some work with an ev calc, I think you will find you are far far too loose.




      isnt poker a game where one dynamic beats another and he who adapts the best wins?
      i do a lot of work on ev and am trying to constantly push the bounderies on my win rate.
      my vpip is 15 but i play only 6 tables and am very tuned in and pick some nice spots that most sss players would not see imho and have a 9.0 BB/100
    • lennonac
      lennonac
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      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      If it works then thats great but it wont work at NL200
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
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      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by dandycal
      For how many hands have you been on this downer? Maybe you just have to be a little more patient?

      I mean, I know it's always easy to say this, but it's not so easy to keep cool when being negative for tens of thousands of hands. Still, we ought to improve our patience skills just as we imrpove our BRM moving up limits.:]
      Well Said! This is only 22k hand downswing and its very possible to have a downswing that last even longer than this. I'm still concerned though. Something thats made me feel better is (I didn't really notice till just now) but I'm an enormous downswing at NL50 a Limit I know I can easily beat. Actually, I'm so proud of it I'm going to post it!
    • Ishindar
      Ishindar
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      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      Originally posted by lennonac
      If it works then thats great but it wont work at NL200
      i wonder why u need to say this? i didnt ask for your opinion or advise.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by Ishindar
      Originally posted by lennonac
      If it works then thats great but it wont work at NL200
      i wonder why u need to say this? i didnt ask for your opinion or advise.
      I said it as you are giving DaPhunk poor advise, if you want to use those calling ranges then thats fine but dont sugest it to someone playing the high end of small stakes.

      It wasnt a personal attack. We are all here to learn more about this wonderfull game that is poker. I for one want to know as much as possible and that is what these forums are for, for discussions and debates not slagging matches.

      I have posted comments that are just either wrong or not the best line and I want other forum mates to comment and correct me if I am wrong otherwise I will keep making the same mistakes.

      I hope you can see my point and I can asume you just think im a stupid bronze member who knows nothing. Well dont jugde anyone by their status.
    • Ishindar
      Ishindar
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2008 Posts: 259
      Originally posted by lennonac
      Originally posted by Ishindar
      Originally posted by lennonac
      If it works then thats great but it wont work at NL200
      i wonder why u need to say this? i didnt ask for your opinion or advise.
      I said it as you are giving DaPhunk poor advise, if you want to use those calling ranges then thats fine but dont sugest it to someone playing the high end of small stakes.

      It wasnt a personal attack. We are all here to learn more about this wonderfull game that is poker. I for one want to know as much as possible and that is what these forums are for, for discussions and debates not slagging matches.

      I have posted comments that are just either wrong or not the best line and I want other forum mates to comment and correct me if I am wrong otherwise I will keep making the same mistakes.

      I hope you can see my point and I can asume you just think im a stupid bronze member who knows nothing. Well dont jugde anyone by their status.
      your comments are arrogant and attorative, you do not have the right to judge and condem my input here. I post to share my experience and what works for me in good faith.
      we all have different play styles and what works for an individual should never be condemed by another, that is just ignorant!
      input here should be taken or left, if it seems unusual it should be examined and undersood better rather than ridiculed.
      its attitudes like yours that disencourage people from posting here and comparing notes etc.
      this is my last word on this subject so please keep your coments to yourself im not interested.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
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      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Im sorry but now I am going to be blunt as you just dont get it!
      Your ranges are proven to be wrong so dont try and belittle me.

      I was posting my comments to help you and others but if you want to continue using those ranges then fine beacause when I see those kind of calls on the tables the player gets the green flag and UBER FISH written in their notes! Enough said!
    • Termi8r
      Termi8r
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      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 408
      I made some fun at your NL50 down swing report, sry. But I know this feelling exactly. If you play against good players NL200+ I think your edge is very small with SSS. So either do strict table selection or if there isn't so many tables move to a site with more fish on that limit or play something else.

      Hope it goes better!
    • Nunki
      Nunki
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      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Originally posted by DaPhunk


      Steal BU, 25%.

      Vs 3bet; vs 3bet Fold, 68.9%(???)

      If this vs 3bet stat is any way indicative of how you react to resteals
      AND your opponents realize this (and how to adjust) then you are going to struggle with your steals. I'd have a close look at your hands to try and get a feel for what hands you are being restolen with. You can also use filters on your dB to see how often your steals face three-bets PF in certain scenarios.

      It would also be worthwhile to see how often you face a a steal when in the BB as your 12% 3-bet stat could be a bit low.

      It is certainly worth having a serious think about your overrall strategy in and around the blinds. If you are able it is always interesting to look at your distribution of $$'s won/lost in terms of the frequency of individual potsizes.

      Good luck and I hope you start to run well ASAP.
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