SnG player moving to BSS. Any tips?

    • Alverine
      Alverine
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      Hello everyone.

      Im a sng player and Im thinking to use the second inital $50 capital given on Pacific. Im reading all the BSS articles. Most BSS players played SSS before, but i havent. Should i read the SSS articles?


      Another thing. I see that i have to use a buy in with a fullstack (100BB) But some poker rooms accepts 150BB or 200BB. In that case, what buyin should i use?
  • 13 replies
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      The deeper you are the more skill is needed to play, personally i don't feel comfortable playing deeper than 150bb. At pacific games are really soft so it's good place to practice, software isn't very multitabling friendly so i guess you'll be better off to play BSS (100bb deep). Well idk what tip could i say, i guess: don't forget that TPTK is not auto all in. :D
    • rickydaprince
      rickydaprince
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2008 Posts: 397
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      The deeper you are the more skill is needed to play, personally i don't feel comfortable playing deeper than 150bb. At pacific games are really soft so it's good place to practice, software isn't very multitabling friendly so i guess you'll be better off to play BSS (100bb deep). Well idk what tip could i say, i guess: don't forget that TPTK is not auto all in. :D
      I agree with that last part. The same applies with overpairs. The hands you play strong and aggressive in SNG, you really need to think again in ring games with BSS. Just practice on the low limits and post your hands up for evaluation.
    • Alverine
      Alverine
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      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      Im getting a feelling about that. I already played MTT deepstack, and i think the strategy its pretty much the same.

      Two pair we go all in? :f_biggrin:
    • Berzerger
      Berzerger
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 910
      Depends. Bottom 2 is not much stronger than TPTK, but on the limits you're likely to play I'd say ship it. Generally, cash games differ mainly in the fact that what you win is literally what you win. A coinflip will either cost you a stack or gain you one, you don't need to worry about busting. You can rebuy at any point in time, and don't have to feel "forced" to play. A much more versatile and liberal game than you'll find in SnG.
    • Alverine
      Alverine
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      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      The most amazing description ive seen about BSS. Thank you Berzerger :s_biggrin:
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
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      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      Originally posted by Alverine
      Should i read the SSS articles?
      There are a few nice things about playing SSS as your intro. First you can watch a few thousand hands and get a feel for how the other big stacks play at your limit. Second, you can datamine a few thousand hands on the regulars while still building your bankroll.

      The big downside is that you really only play two streets so you won't build up any skills for playing the turn and river.

      Even if you don't play SSS you really need to read the articles. You need to be able to recognize the difference between a real short-stack player and someone who is just gambling or trying to limit their losses by buying in for the minimum. Also you need to know how to make +EV decisions against the good short stackers. For example its quite easy to beat someone playing only the basic bronze strategy because they are playing their hand face-up for you.
    • Alverine
      Alverine
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      Originally posted by tokyoaces
      Originally posted by Alverine
      Should i read the SSS articles?
      There are a few nice things about playing SSS as your intro. First you can watch a few thousand hands and get a feel for how the other big stacks play at your limit. Second, you can datamine a few thousand hands on the regulars while still building your bankroll.

      The big downside is that you really only play two streets so you won't build up any skills for playing the turn and river.

      Even if you don't play SSS you really need to read the articles. You need to be able to recognize the difference between a real short-stack player and someone who is just gambling or trying to limit their losses by buying in for the minimum. Also you need to know how to make +EV decisions against the good short stackers. For example its quite easy to beat someone playing only the basic bronze strategy because they are playing their hand face-up for you.
      Yeah, I thought that i would need that background knowledge, now im sure :f_biggrin: One question about SSS players. I make a steal blinds from late position std 4BB, a decent SSS raises all in, i only continues with JJ+,AK?


      Well, i already played a few sessions. I started at NL 0.01/0.02 with 100BB and a BR at $50 at pacific. And what can i say, im running goood :s_biggrin:
      Went to $60 very fast. Than i say "what hell, im playing with 200BB". It was a little bit out of my BR, but i have $400 on stars, so im not using scared money. All in all, I think its a good decision. Now my BR is at $70, so its not so risky anymore (i think).

      About the game itself: its so soft, and i love it :s_love: Im having so much fun playing deep stack cash game than playing my usual set of 8~10 sng's.

      I see a lot of good cash game players using a loose preflop strategy (more hands than the SHC) and a tight solid postflop strategy. This only works for higher limits or can I use at my limit? Im seeing with good eyes speculative hands such as connector suited or pp when i see the flop so cheap and i sometimes manage to double up mading a flush/straight/set.

      I dont know if i am being tighter than it is necessary postflop. Today i folded a set of JJ on the turn by a 1/2 bet, because there was 4 :spade: on board and i received a lot of action. Dont know if that was the right decision.

      I have some questions about the SHC BSS:
      1-)Do you strictly follow this chart?
      2-)Why cant i add K2s+ at late position/blinds?
      3-)The rule for calling a raise with pp is call 20. In deep stack, this is almost always the case to call. Is this right?
    • Volrath89
      Volrath89
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      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 2,170
      I have some questions about the SHC BSS:
      1-)Do you strictly follow this chart?
      2-)Why cant i add K2s+ at late position/blinds?
      3-)The rule for calling a raise with pp is call 20. In deep stack, this is almost always the case to call. Is this right?


      1-) Its ok to start, (especially for nano limits like NL5 and less) but I'd recommend a few changes from NL10+:

      -Open raise every pocket pair from every position.
      - Never limp any hand

      And we get to your 2nd question:

      - You don't have to have a chart to open raise from late positions, for example you could open raise any two against tight blinds, and you shouldn't raise too loose against loose players on the blinds.

      3-) Yes, it's usually the case, you have to count both stacks though, if your opponent has 50BB and open raises 4BB it doesn't matter than you have 100BB, you don't have call20 because you can't win more than 50BB. (For standard open raises preflop u just look at opp's stack if its >80BB then call)
    • Volrath89
      Volrath89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 2,170
      I dont know if i am being tighter than it is necessary postflop. Today i folded a set of JJ on the turn by a 1/2 bet, because there was 4 on board and i received a lot of action. Dont know if that was the right decision.


      Wow I just read this, and yes you are definitely being too tight!!, a set of J is the nuts in the turn (unless the board is like J:sX:sX:sX and even then you have 10 outs to beat the flush!)

      You need to have a very very damn good reason to fold any set postflop, I've folded a set I think only once in over 150k hands... (200BB deep and facing a 100BB bet on the river, and it was prob. a mistake lol)
    • Alverine
      Alverine
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      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      Originally posted by Volrath89
      I dont know if i am being tighter than it is necessary postflop. Today i folded a set of JJ on the turn by a 1/2 bet, because there was 4 on board and i received a lot of action. Dont know if that was the right decision.


      Wow I just read this, and yes you are probably being too tight!!, a set of J is the nuts in the turn (unless the board is like J:sX:sX:sX and even then you have 10 outs to beat the flush!)

      You need to have a very very damn good reason to fold any set postflop, I've folded a set I think only once in over 150k hands... (200BB deep and facing a 100BB bet on the river, and it was prob. a mistake lol)
      Yeah it was like that. It was 4 handed . Flop comes J :spade: Q :spade: 5 :spade: I bet pot and two calls my bet. On the turn T :spade: i check, the other one check, the last bet 1/2 pot, i fold. I should just call it right?
    • Alverine
      Alverine
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      Originally posted by Volrath89
      I have some questions about the SHC BSS:
      1-)Do you strictly follow this chart?
      2-)Why cant i add K2s+ at late position/blinds?
      3-)The rule for calling a raise with pp is call 20. In deep stack, this is almost always the case to call. Is this right?


      1-) Its ok to start, (especially for nano limits like NL5 and less) but I'd recommend a few changes from NL10+:

      -Open raise every pocket pair from every position.
      - Never limp any hand


      And we get to your 2nd question:

      - You don't have to have a chart to open raise from late positions, for example you could open raise any two against tight blinds, and you shouldn't raise too loose against loose players on the blinds.

      3-) Yes, it's usually the case, you have to count both stacks though, if your opponent has 50BB and open raises 4BB it doesn't matter than you have 100BB, you don't have call20 because you can't win more than 50BB. (For standard open raises preflop u just look at opp's stack if its >80BB then call)
      I dont see why cant I limp speculative hands with a lot of limpers. I have pretty good odds and the usual player style is loose passive. If I raise, those who limped will very often call my raise. Isnt better just play pp for a set and suited connectors for straight/flush when there is limpers behind me?
    • Volrath89
      Volrath89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 2,170
      Originally posted by Alverine
      Originally posted by Volrath89
      I dont know if i am being tighter than it is necessary postflop. Today i folded a set of JJ on the turn by a 1/2 bet, because there was 4 on board and i received a lot of action. Dont know if that was the right decision.


      Wow I just read this, and yes you are probably being too tight!!, a set of J is the nuts in the turn (unless the board is like J:sX:sX:sX and even then you have 10 outs to beat the flush!)

      You need to have a very very damn good reason to fold any set postflop, I've folded a set I think only once in over 150k hands... (200BB deep and facing a 100BB bet on the river, and it was prob. a mistake lol)
      Yeah it was like that. It was 4 handed . Flop comes J :spade: Q :spade: 5 :spade: I bet pot and two calls my bet. On the turn T :spade: i check, the other one check, the last bet 1/2 pot, i fold. I should just call it right?
      With a half pot bet you get pot odds of 3:1 and with 10 outs you need 3.5:1 pot odds to call profitable, so folding is not horrible, but I think there you could call and donk river if you hit (I don't think a flush would fold on the river, so I'd count the implied odds)
    • Volrath89
      Volrath89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 2,170
      Originally posted by Alverine
      Originally posted by Volrath89
      I have some questions about the SHC BSS:
      1-)Do you strictly follow this chart?
      2-)Why cant i add K2s+ at late position/blinds?
      3-)The rule for calling a raise with pp is call 20. In deep stack, this is almost always the case to call. Is this right?


      1-) Its ok to start, (especially for nano limits like NL5 and less) but I'd recommend a few changes from NL10+:

      -Open raise every pocket pair from every position.
      - Never limp any hand


      And we get to your 2nd question:

      - You don't have to have a chart to open raise from late positions, for example you could open raise any two against tight blinds, and you shouldn't raise too loose against loose players on the blinds.

      3-) Yes, it's usually the case, you have to count both stacks though, if your opponent has 50BB and open raises 4BB it doesn't matter than you have 100BB, you don't have call20 because you can't win more than 50BB. (For standard open raises preflop u just look at opp's stack if its >80BB then call)
      I dont see why cant I limp speculative hands with a lot of limpers. I have pretty good odds and the usual player style is loose passive. If I raise, those who limped will very often call my raise. Isnt better just play pp for a set and suited connectors for straight/flush when there is limpers behind me?

      Well usually the limp-limp-limp play is more common at nano limits (ok at NL10 too at some tables) thats why I said following the chart was ok at those nano limits. I'd call SC and small PP (66 or less) with 2 or more limpers, but medium (77+) to high pockets I prefer to raise even with multiple limpers. Just remember to raise the usual amount of 4BB+1BB per limper.

      I don't mind if I get one caller because then I can take down the pot with my continuation bet very often and a big advantage of raising pocket pairs is than you can end all in with a bet/bet/bet line easier when you hit your set in a raised pot than in an unraised one . (On an unraised pot even taking a bet/bet/bet line won't get you all in)