ICM-T vs Charts

    • shAdOwArt
      shAdOwArt
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.07.2009 Posts: 363
      When playing around with the ICM Trainer (light version) it often tells me that I'm wrong when I'm following the Push-or-Fold chart from the SnG bronze section. Here's one example:

      BB is 400.
      CO: 3,340, All-in
      Hero: 3,550, AQo
      SB: 3,340
      BB: 2,670.

      ICM Trainer tells me that I should only push with AKo+, hence I should fold. However, the rebound charts for non-blind position tells me that a push with AQo vs a CO push is justified if I have less than 11 BBs, in this case I'm sitting on slightly less than 9 BBs.

      Which one should I trust?

      Thanks in advance,
      shAdOwArt
  • 7 replies
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Trust ICM. The charts are only there so that you don't go broke before you have the time to learn ICM properly.. :f_wink:
    • Heffron89
      Heffron89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 813
      Why would u want at best a coinflip against the second biggest stack?
    • shAdOwArt
      shAdOwArt
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.07.2009 Posts: 363
      Originally posted by LuborC
      Trust ICM. The charts are only there so that you don't go broke before you have the time to learn ICM properly.. :f_wink:
      Ok thanks :)
    • gearoi
      gearoi
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2009 Posts: 16
      I was about to post the exact same thing - I was trying to learn how to implement the ICM by using the charts to show me what is important and get suggestions for when I'm online playing...

      BUT they don't agree, enough (on level 8 of ICM trainer light especially) so that you can't pass the tests! ...

      So - how do you "learn" ICM?

      At the moment I get answers and I have no idea what the rational is for why push or fold... do I just carry on and eventually I will "understand" ICM by repetition or do I just listen to the tips on the right hand side...

      Thoughts much appreciated..

      Gear
    • GunFlavoured
      GunFlavoured
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 626
      Originally posted by gearoi
      I was about to post the exact same thing - I was trying to learn how to implement the ICM by using the charts to show me what is important and get suggestions for when I'm online playing...

      BUT they don't agree, enough (on level 8 of ICM trainer light especially) so that you can't pass the tests! ...

      So - how do you "learn" ICM?

      At the moment I get answers and I have no idea what the rational is for why push or fold... do I just carry on and eventually I will "understand" ICM by repetition or do I just listen to the tips on the right hand side...

      Thoughts much appreciated..

      Gear
      ICM uses a heap of maths to calculate the optimum range for each situation, I doubt you can learn it exactly just practice it until you have a feel for each situation. The trainer also assumes villian has an optimal calling range as well so you can change your range to suit your opponents.

      As for the opening post, I think the charts are taken from a full table (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Since you're on the bubble there is no point in risking all your chips with AQ, you'd most likely be facing a coinflip at best
    • gearoi
      gearoi
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2009 Posts: 16
      Originally posted by GunFlavoured
      I doubt you can learn it exactly just practice it until you have a feel for each situation.
      OK I'll do that for a few days/weeks and see where I get - thanks for explanation. :)
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Hello shAdOwArt,

      I moved this to SnG section where you can hopefully get more feedback ;)

      Best Regards,

      -Jack