[NL2-NL10] NL2 - 54s from MP3, flopped a Flush

    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      CO:
      $1.61
      BU:
      $4.57
      SB:
      $3.73
      BB:
      $0.80
      MP1:
      $2.04
      MP2:
      $4.03
      MP3(Hero):
      $2.12


      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 4, 5.
      MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 folds, Hero calls $0.02, 2 folds, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0.07) Q, A, 6 (5 players)
      BB checks, MP1 bets $0.08, Hero raises to $0.22, BB folds, MP1 folds.

      Final Pot: $0.37.
  • 9 replies
    • rubysilesia
      rubysilesia
      Silver
      Joined: 03.07.2007 Posts: 351
      I would raise more (about 0.3) to protect against higher flushdraw.
    • purpleshoes21
      purpleshoes21
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.04.2008 Posts: 100
      I think you played this well. It is frustrating when you flop a flush and you do not get that much money from it, but, on the other hand, you really have to protect your hand since another club on the turn would be terrible for you. You can't give another player with a higher club good odds for the flush draw, so it was good that you bet so much. I think I would even raise some more with so many people in the pot. Maybe to like $0.30 or something.
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      As shoes & ruby said, I'd also raise it up slightly more towards 30ish, maybe a bit below. A lot of hands that are calling your 22c raise will also call a 28c raise probably. Like said you also want to protect against say A K kinda hands with a higher flush draw.

      You definitely made the right play by raising here on the flop. If you slowplay and a 4th hits the board on later streets, not only will you not get value from your hand anymore by hands that might still pay you off here but pretty much any hand with a would have you beat all of a sudden...
    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      Originally posted by Mstlc
      As shoes & ruby said, I'd also raise it up slightly more towards 30ish, maybe a bit below. A lot of hands that are calling your 22c raise will also call a 28c raise probably. Like said you also want to protect against say A K kinda hands with a higher flush draw.

      You definitely made the right play by raising here on the flop. If you slowplay and a 4th hits the board on later streets, not only will you not get value from your hand anymore by hands that might still pay you off here but pretty much any hand with a would have you beat all of a sudden...
      If one of them called, I would check/fold on the turn even if another club didn't come.

      and why all of you say that the raise should be 0.30 or higher? how do you "determine" the right ammount of the raise?

      thank you for replying guys
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Originally posted by MancaMulas
      If one of them called, I would check/fold on the turn even if another club didn't come.

      and why all of you say that the raise should be 0.30 or higher? how do you "determine" the right ammount of the raise?
      1. Why?

      2. Before you make a raise you should always ask yourself... If I do make this raise, which hands are gonna call me, and which hands are gonna fold? And with that answer you can conclude wether there is value to be gotten from the hand or not. Since a lot of people at NL2 have such poor post-flop skills, or in fact no post-flop skills at all it doesn't hurt to raise it up a bit more... if they're gonna call you, they'll call any decent amount anyway...
    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      I raised 22 cents because it was aprox. 3 times his raise, I read it in the bronze articles...

      I can't say that I am really good playing post-flop, I play poker 3 months ago, and switched to BSS a week ago!
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Originally posted by MancaMulas
      I raised 22 cents because it was aprox. 3 times his raise, I read it in the bronze articles...
      Fair enough, but when you raise post-flop you also have to take the pot size in consideration.

      Imagine a $2 pot on the turn with someone betting 10c into you. People will often try to do this with a flush draw to get a cheap card. If you raise to 3 times his raise, that'll be a 30c raise. He'll have to call 20c in a $2.6 pot then to see another card... there's no way people will fold there.

      In the hand you posted here it doesn't matter too much but it's something you should definitely keep in the back of your head for the future.

      PS: You said a few posts ago you would check/fold the turn if you would've been called even if there wouldn't be another club on the turn. That's just a huge mistake. Flush over flush is soooo rare... the chance that someone actually has a better flush is so small... but you're still gonna get called by any K x:x hand I think, any set is gonna call or re-raise you here. Folding here after you raised really is way too nitty.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      You determine good raise sizes by using outs and pot odds, and remembering key sizes for table play. I'd suggest taking a look at bronze articles and take some time to understand these concepts :

      Mathematics of Poker: Odds and Outs
      Mathematics of Poker: Implied Pot Odds


      Here you have 2 clubs in your hand and there are 3 clubs on the board, which means an opponent with 1 club in his hand actually needs one of the other 7 clubs in the deck (out of 46 cards left total) to outdraw you. The other 39 cards won't help him.

      39:7 ~ 5.6:1, which means you need to make sure your opponent doesn't get more than 5.6:1 pot odds to make the call, or he will be able to outdraw you for the right price.

      Here he needs to call $0.14 more to win a pot of $0.37, so he's getting 37:14~2.64:1 pot odds, which is low enough for him to make a mistake by calling.

      Unless he thinks he can take more money from you once he hits, and that's where implied odds come in. If he thinks he can extract $1 more out of you on later streets when he hits, he is actually calling $0.14 to win $1+$0.37, for ~137:14~9.8:1 pot odds, making it a hugely profitable call in his eyes.

      At the table you usually want to make something close to a potsize raise to give around 2:1 pot odds to your opponent, so that his call is almost always unprofitable unless you pay him off way too easily on later streets, which you shouldn't :)

      A pot size raise in this spot is you putting the $0.08 in the pot, and then raising the pot size, which is $0.07+$0.08+$0.08=$0.23 at this point, for a total of $0.08+$0.23=$0.31 bet for you. Thus the $0.3 raise suggested by the others.


      Hope it helps.
    • MancaMulas
      MancaMulas
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,491
      It's a little bit hard for me as an amateur to make these calculations, since I only have 15 seconds to act!

      I have read those articles twice since I play BSS, and I have understand it quite well I think, but it's hard for me to take the outs and odds into my game with 4 tables open.

      Grateful for your help Tamairlarace, good job