what is a downswing (NL cash)?

  • 12 replies
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by fun101rockets
      Would this be considered a downswing or downward varience?
      Isn't it the same?
    • fun101rockets
      fun101rockets
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,162
      i aam not sure but i think downward varience is quick and downswing is extended
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Well, for you 15k hands means nothing, for me, it's about a week or two i guess, and let's say live player would probably kill himself while on 15k hands swong.
      So i don't think that such things should be measured in time/amount of hands.
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
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      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      I lost 20 BI over 25k hands and that was like a week for me and felt like a bloody downstring :P
    • Botervisken
      Botervisken
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2009 Posts: 1,238
      900 euro on casino , bad beats all over
      from upswing to downswing :)


      from +700 to -200 hehe

      but i got new tactic now for the callingstations so ill get it back

      shark will eat fish again
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      'downswing' 'variance' 'a cooler'. All just words for describing observed patterns in largely random data.

      Flip a coin ten times. If you get heads 9 times, instead of 5, do you call it chance or a 'downswing'?
    • extpan
      extpan
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      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 289
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      I lost 20 BI over 25k hands and that was like a week for me and felt like a bloody downstring :P
      -20bi with sss on nl25 pokerstars in less than 1000hand:) ....EV was +63 and i was -102
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      Originally posted by fun101rockets
      How many hands?
      How many BI lost?
      I lost 8BI in 15K hands but it only lasted a day then i tured it around. Would this be considered a downswing or downward varience?
      I think you can have both downswing and downward variance at the same time, they aren't exclusive but different ways of describing losses.

      The only way to be sure is to look at stats for your hands, if you are being outdrawn more when ahead I'd say variance related downswing, if you are being pushed off a better hand or somehow afraid to be aggressive or tilting, then I'd say downswing from non-ideal play.

      IMO The first should be quick and reflect in your EV winnings. The second will be more prolonged (I think 15k hands qualifies - at least the downside of it) and reflect also in non-showdown winnings. E.g. I can avoid a downswing with -EV results if my non showdown winnings compensate.

      my $0.02
    • BogdanDin7
      BogdanDin7
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,114
      Originally posted by extpan
      Originally posted by BogdanDin7
      I lost 20 BI over 25k hands and that was like a week for me and felt like a bloody downstring :P
      -20bi with sss on nl25 pokerstars in less than 1000hand:) ....EV was +63 and i was -102
      I`m talking about BSS :P Altough that hurts too ^^
    • RavForenzo
      RavForenzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2008 Posts: 293
      do people focus too much on these so-called downswings? I think so! Like has been mentioned above, 15k hands can be nothing to some people, and a month to others. So you can quickly compensate for losses and get your mindset right, or if you're losing a lot over a prolonged period because you player fewer hands in a weak, you are gonna be a lot more aware of the loss and thus your play may also suffer as a result.

      Yes from time to time, your 96% on the flop is gonna lose out. But how many of those contribute to the downward line on your graph? Not many I bet. Therefore a considerable portion of a downswing is no doubt related to bad play, of course you can avoid this by knowing when to fold and such.

      It seems to me that people focus way too much on the downers and often use it as an excuse for bad play. There are very few that can claim to play perfect poker, so these kind of slopes are inevitable eventually. It's how you chose deal with them.

      I think. :)
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by RavForenzo
      Yes from time to time, your 96% on the flop is gonna lose out. But how many of those contribute to the downward line on your graph? Not many I bet. Therefore a considerable portion of a downswing is no doubt related to bad play, of course you can avoid this by knowing when to fold and such.
      I have to disagree here, i myself had 11bi (fullstack) downswing where most of buyins were lost when money went in as a big favourite, and few due to coolers like set vs set, kk vs aa AIPF.

      When you play tons of hands a year, such things becomes very likely, and probably will happen at least once.
    • RavForenzo
      RavForenzo
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      Joined: 27.05.2008 Posts: 293
      i agree with that, what I was getting at, probably worded badly is that a lot of the rants that occur on here, when people are talking about such downswings after like 4k hands is that there is clearly more than just bad luck involved.

      I play like 30-40k hands a month, and yes it does happen. But sometimes you do contribute to your own downfall. It's human nature. Part of becoming a good player is to detach yourself from such runs.