How do you go over this

    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      On the bubble. 71 left - 70 gets 15$

      Blinds 300/600 FR - I'm CO with A :club: K :club: (5500) UTG limps , so does MP2, I raise all in SB folds BB folds UTG calls ( 18000 stack), MP2 goes all in ( 6200) , UTG calls. Main pot is 17400.

      FLOP:
      2 :club: A :heart: T :club:

      TURN:
      A :diamond:

      RIVER:
      J :diamond:

      SHOWDOWN:
      UTG: 8 :diamond: 8 :club:
      MP2: K :spade: Q :club:

      I mean this knocked me out. It's not the first time I'm out on the bubble, but this guy I hope he wins 5 million $ and loses all to a hand like this one.
  • 17 replies
    • soonish
      soonish
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.06.2008 Posts: 102
      Well, just get over it, It s gonna happens often to you espacially if you play tournaments. And more if you are shortstack. Just try to think if play the hand good or not. If yes you shouldn t care because next time you will win... If not , try to not do the sane misstake... stop thinking about luck or play roulette
    • nubbe2
      nubbe2
      Black
      Joined: 08.04.2009 Posts: 876
      8c8d 43,212%

      KsQc 21,147%

      AcKc 35,641%

      you just don't win that often.


      I will highly recommend reading the Tilt articles by Robert Langer when you get silver status.



      Or u can just see worse bad beat

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
      SB ($137)
      BB ($100)
      Hero ($149)
      UTG+1 ($537)
      CO ($151)
      BTN ($179)

      Dealt to Hero A:club: A:spade:

      Hero raises to $3.50, fold, fold, BTN raises to $6, fold, fold, Hero raises to $22, BTN calls $16,

      FLOP ($45.50) 6:spade: Q:club: K:club:

      Hero bets $33, BTN raises to $157 (AI), Hero calls $94.20 (AI),

      TURN ($299) 6:spade: Q:club: K:club: 7:club:



      RIVER ($299) 6:spade: Q:club: K:club: 7:club: T:diamond:



      BTN shows 9:club: J:diamond:
      (Flop 16.8%, Turn 6.8%)

      Hero shows A:club: A:spade:
      (Flop 83.2%, Turn 93.2%)

      BTN wins $296
    • LetchLord
      LetchLord
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.03.2009 Posts: 1,353
      The last one totally sucks... the dude called on a gutshot... what a donk...

      As for the tournaments hands like the one described above happen all the time.... Yes, it hearts when it happens... but that's poker. You gotta just get over it as soon as possible. I'm mostly pissed when people call my All Ins with some of the lowest pocket pairs - 2s or 3s or 4s and they bust me out of the tourney. How the hell can you call an All In holding pocket 2s. And I haven't been short stack all the time when that happens.... just sucks...
    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      I'm over it now. Just posting it made me go over. I wasn't saying it is a bad beat. I lost with QQ against 55 with a Q x x flop and he got his runner runner straight.

      I was highlighting what a donk MP2 was by pushing to an allin + a call from a big stack with K high.In that position and the circumstances i think you must have QQ or better to call according to ICM .
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      well , you can't be too afraid of being bubbled or you shouldn't play the tourney imo.

      nh, and very stupid play by mp2.
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Originally posted by nubbe2
      8c8d 43,212%

      KsQc 21,147%

      AcKc 35,641%

      you just don't win that often.
      There's not much point in calculating that, it doesn't reflect reality at all. You'd have to calculate equity versus the opponent(s)'s calling range(s), fold equity, and all those tourney-related calculations I know absolutely nothing about to determine profitability.

      Either way this should probably be in the MTT forum rather than small talk
    • Anssi
      Anssi
      Black
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 2,173
      Originally posted by LetchLord
      The last one totally sucks... the dude called on a gutshot... what a donk...
      No, he pushed with it. Totally different.


      Btw you can easily fold that AKs if you are one place from bubble. The chips you have are worth so much more than the chips you can earn. And if huge stack limps UTG, he will often call as well even though he is behind your range and you just did take a flip which is something you should never take especially on bubble or close to it. Sometimes people also limp AA/KK hoping for people to push because raising from UTG scares away a lot of hands. MP call is pretty irrelevant, he will fold very often.
    • Anssi
      Anssi
      Black
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 2,173
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      well , you can't be too afraid of being bubbled or you shouldn't play the tourney imo.
      Yes, you should. If you are short stack on bubble, your only goal now is to survive into money. Of course if you have large stack you should raise, raise and raise to steal from those short stacks.
    • staicu74
      staicu74
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.07.2009 Posts: 57
      After readin the first posts, I was going to say exactly what Anssi posted.

      Phil Gordon said in his Little Green book that if you never go allin against a player that covers you, you can never go broke. Taking this into account, you should evaluate what would winning that hand bring you and what would you lose by losing it and recalculate your pot odds.

      Perhaps an overcall would have been more profitable in this spot.

      Bafta!
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      As said before, if you don't care at making the money you played well. If getting in the money is very important to you, then wait for someone else to go broke.

      I will add that the outcome of one mtt shouldn't affect you, there's always another game and you still have plenty of dollars.
    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      I agree with the fact that if you are 4th or 3rd in chips you have to look to make it ITM of course , and also if you are covered by someone you shouldn't push loose.

      Sometimes, if you are 3rd in chips and the 4th in chips is really really low you must fold anything but AA or KK imo.
    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      Everything that I said applies in SnG's ... For MTT you must adjust to the situation of the bubble.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by Anssi
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      well , you can't be too afraid of being bubbled or you shouldn't play the tourney imo.
      Yes, you should. If you are short stack on bubble, your only goal now is to survive into money. Of course if you have large stack you should raise, raise and raise to steal from those short stacks.
      if you are playing a MTT then if you have some sort of BRM 1 buyin won't mean anything to you (that doesn't mean you can call here with A2o because omg it's just 1 buyin)

      having said that getting AKs with a 9bb stack is a gift from the poker gods and folding is just unbelievebly nitty. so what do you push over limpers here ¿ JJ+ ? :f_o:
    • staicu74
      staicu74
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.07.2009 Posts: 57
      Good point. Calling an allin with AKs in that spot, may be the wrong move, but moving allin after two limpers seems to be the right move, no matter what.
    • Anssi
      Anssi
      Black
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 2,173
      Like I said, the MP caller is pretty irrelevant. But the UTG caller will call your push most of time. After all, he has chips and might very well feel commited even though he is not. He may also slowplay.

      I'd probably move over with QQ+. There is huge difference in AK and QQ against the callers' ranges. QQ dominates them, AK flips.
    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      Originally posted by Anssi
      Like I said, the MP caller is pretty irrelevant. But the UTG caller will call your push most of time. After all, he has chips and might very well feel commited even though he is not. He may also slowplay.

      I'd probably move over with QQ+. There is huge difference in AK and QQ against the callers' ranges. QQ dominates them, AK flips.


      True, But also QQ is like AK when the opponent has A x . so AK against A x is like QQ vs A x (except for the K).
    • Anssi
      Anssi
      Black
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 2,173
      The point is what they will limp. What Aces they limp with? Pretty much none. Of course the correct limping range is 0%. But now that they have limped, what do I think their limping range is? I'd say something like 22+, KQs, QJs, MP maybe ATs-AQs. Even if they limped with something like A5s they are more likely to fold that than 66.