[NL2-NL10] NL 200, JQ suited against re-steal

    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
      SB ($38)
      Hero ($43)
      UTG ($192)
      UTG+1 ($376)
      UTG+2 ($40)
      MP1 ($208)
      MP2 ($658)
      MP3 ($200)
      CO ($230)
      BTN ($199)

      Dealt to Hero J:club: Q:club:

      fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $5, Hero calls $3

      FLOP ($10) T:club: T:diamond: K:spade:

      SB bets $6, Hero calls $6

      TURN ($22) T:club: T:diamond: K:spade: A:spade:

      SB checks, Hero checks

      RIVER ($22) T:club: T:diamond: K:spade: A:spade: 6:diamond:

      SB bets $14, Hero raises to $32 (AI), SB calls $13 (AI)

      I don't think I can re-steal here, but calling sounds alright, we have high suited connector and opponent is aggressive enough to c-bet most of times (= more implieds).

      I don't like my call on flop though. This flop is a good opportunity to play back at him because I get a good deal of FE + I've got 8 + outs against any pair and also against a T here.

      Thoughts, please, cheers.

      (- I do have the feeling DaPhunk might reprehend me for getting into post-flop play in NL200 :tongue: .. but do share your thoughts mate, you've got valuable BSS experience =D)
  • 8 replies
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Your hand is fine for a re-steal PF.

      I'm not a fan of the PF-call but if you do you shoud do so with a view to making moves on certain flops. You seem to have gotten your flop so no need to wait until turn.

      I'd also bet the turn for balance as I'd be looking to float villain etc. in these sort of spots (should I be one who likes to call PF). T-x has 10 outs versus your hand and 18outs if its :spade: :spade: which is another reason to bet the turn especially since this villain has ony 9% AFq on river so we may not induce bluffs often enough by checking turn.
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      I see. So you'd res-teal in the first place. It makes sense to me, since I should expect villain to be stealing quite loose against me.

      Regarding the post-flop lines, calling turn was bad, I know.But between reraising flop or floating I should think that making a move on the flop is better, since it's a drawing hand we should like to get it in earlier.. do you agree?
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      This villain c-bets a ton (ie.particularly exploitable when he's on a steal) and seems to not be too shy in firing second barrels. If you decide to mess with this player post-flop then you should look to be raising the flop rather than looking to float. You have one of the best flops you could have hoped for and should simply shove the flop whilst you have maximum pot-equity/fold-equity.

      BTW, when you have a villain making moves with non-premiums then your implied-odds go down unless he is some sort of maniac. Nits raising UTG offer the best potential implied-odds.

      Your FE pf is typically worth more than any implieds post-flop with so little money behind.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,855
      I can't add much to Nunki's powerful analysis except to say that I now agree that the flop call is the least favourable line (even though it's the one I'd be most likely to make myself - especially if I was new to NL200 and feeling a little wary of shoving 30+BB on a board with an overcard ;)

      If we're restealing pf, I'd be interested in people's views on the following:

      is it a normal 3bet (and if so do we fold to a 4bet push?)?
      or do we push ourselves?

      Tim
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Originally posted by Nunki
      Your FE pf is typically worth more than any implieds post-flop with so little money behind.
      This seems almost impossible to calculate for me, but even though we'll get a c-bet pretty much 100% of the times (thus doubling possible profits with FE on flop), and we'll hit Pair+, FD, OESD over 40% of the times so that we'll be able to push flop?

      We'd need to get him to fold his c-bet about 30% of the time so that we make more or less the same as we'd make with PF push ( I calculated EV=$3.95 if 85%FE against re-steal), and don't you think we could actually make more profit post-flop with 21 bb stack - given we'd play flop optimally =D?



      P.S.: btw, I found out that this guy is actually a PS shark, german black member :s_o:
    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      i also prefer a preflop shove.
      25-30% with 50%+FE is enough to push QJs.

      as played i push the flop
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Interesting one. I think I push preflop as well, with only a Shortstack the nice draws I can hit on the flop won't be worth nearly as much and I won't get such good implieds, + I'd be surprised if he really was raising as little as 28% from SB vs a shortstack.

      As played, I think you likely have more Fold Equity on the flop by pushing, but Floating is possible too. The reason I say this is that on this non-FD Flop I might well call with Tx or Kx betting turn to a check. Raising that flop is not something I would do with the nuts (possibly unlike other shortstacks) and thus if Villain is observant its just more likely that I'm making a move there with a draw (or nothing).

      Want to know whats got more fold Equity against a Big Stack? Floating or Raising Flop? Why don't you post the sample hand on the BSS forum and find out! Get some information from the enemy!

      oh yea, Calling this (pretty much minraise) preflop and being able to play it nicely on the flop would be an extremely good weapon in you arsenal. As long as you balance of course. Don't be afraid to try out some BSS on lower limits yourself to improve your Shortstack game or to read all the BSS articles either.
    • ysessa
      ysessa
      Basic
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 1,331
      i like your preflop call but definitly raise/broke flop... just stove your equity against underpairs or even a T very easy ship with fold equity