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# When to use ChipEV and when to use \$EV?

• Silver
Joined: 31.01.2009
Hi, Im playing the 18Man SnG and im trying to improve my skills. My question is pretty much said in the title, i will give one example:

Situation: 12 players left, 4 players paid. KJ at CO.

According to sng wiz, if we use ChipEV, we push

If we use \$EV, sng wiz will think this is the final table, so 6 players left, wich is not correct. \$EV graph:

What should we use here?
• 7 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 01.06.2008
U can't use equilibrium pushes when playing low buyin SnGs. Oponnents aren't good enough. U push depending on how loose/tight the blinds are. But looking at this spot easy push for me regardless. Ur still far from the money and even if it's slightly -EV it's irrelevant.
• Bronze
Joined: 20.04.2008
In a tourney you should basically always use \$EV...
• Silver
Joined: 31.01.2009
Originally posted by LuborC
In a tourney you should basically always use \$EV...
\$EV sng wiz consider this is the final table, wich is wrong.

Originally posted by Atoks
U can't use equilibrium pushes when playing low buyin SnGs. Oponnents aren't good enough. U push depending on how loose/tight the blinds are. But looking at this spot easy push for me regardless. Ur still far from the money and even if it's slightly -EV it's irrelevant.
I know that problem. Im playing the \$6,50 sng's, and thats why im using sng wiz to adjust my game based on my opponents range.

Why if it's slightly -EV it's irrevelant?
• Black
Joined: 26.05.2007
Hmmm I don't get it, wiz should recognize it's a two table sng and react accordingly, shouldn't it?
• Bronze
Joined: 01.06.2008
Originally posted by Alverine
Originally posted by LuborC
In a tourney you should basically always use \$EV...
\$EV sng wiz consider this is the final table, wich is wrong.

Originally posted by Atoks
U can't use equilibrium pushes when playing low buyin SnGs. Oponnents aren't good enough. U push depending on how loose/tight the blinds are. But looking at this spot easy push for me regardless. Ur still far from the money and even if it's slightly -EV it's irrelevant.
I know that problem. Im playing the \$6,50 sng's, and thats why im using sng wiz to adjust my game based on my opponents range.

Why if it's slightly -EV it's irrevelant?
Because ur playing against scared money. They will not call u without premiums. Folding is OK but I like to steal in a spot like this because often enough the blinds will call even less then 7% range.
• Bronze
Joined: 19.04.2008
I think in multi table tournaments the rule goes

more players --> chip ev more important
less players (aka closer too bubble) --> \$EV super important.

That being said, in a 18man sng \$EV is pretty much always most important. There is no point getting it in with a 52% advantage in the first hand.

What I'm more curious about : how do you have to adjust the ICM calculations with the unknown factors that are on other tables?

say you are down to 10 players (2 tables), and there are 4 super shortstacks on the table you're NOT playing on. This has to have an impact on your \$EV in calculations, but how can you let the sng wizard factor it in?
• Silver
Joined: 31.01.2009
Originally posted by viewer88
I think in multi table tournaments the rule goes

more players --> chip ev more important
less players (aka closer too bubble) --> \$EV super important.

That being said, in a 18man sng \$EV is pretty much always most important. There is no point getting it in with a 52% advantage in the first hand.

What I'm more curious about : how do you have to adjust the ICM calculations with the unknown factors that are on other tables?

say you are down to 10 players (2 tables), and there are 4 super shortstacks on the table you're NOT playing on. This has to have an impact on your \$EV in calculations, but how can you let the sng wizard factor it in?
You cant. When i put sng wiz to calculate the \$EV he assumes this is the final table. If we switch to cEV, he assumes we are far away from the money. Both are wrong. I see that problem on situations like the bubble of a big tourney. Its impossible to calculate the right situation based on a program, because there is so many factors unknown (like player stacks)