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need some advice

    • TheRebuz
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      hi all i got this problem:

      -in town where I live there is one cash game FL 1$/2$

      -its played 8 max players per table and the players are all regulars around 10- 20 people depends on do they have $$ on not :) )

      - so here is my problem:

      - they are all bad terrible players BIG fish
      they are all loose passive calling stations

      just for ex:
      they all play
      - any 2 suited (q5s, j3s ,83s(
      - any Ax
      - any pockets
      - any 2 face cards
      and they play this hands no matter is there raise in front of them or not;
      and from any position UTG ...CU BU is all the same
      so obviously that they play 80% of they hands

      that for preflop play

      on flop
      if they hit pair, str8 draw, flush draw, gutshot or even 2 over cards or just A hi with no draw, or back door draws THEY R NO FOLDING ON FLOP so 90% of players that saw flop call for flop bet and even raise (which happens rarely couse no1 is raising lol and every 1 calls)

      on turn
      60% of players that saw flop call turn bet and 40% of players call turn raise if there is a raise

      on river
      99% of time min 2 players call river bet and go to showdown no matter what board looks like

      so let me be clear 99% of hands goes like this

      8 players
      1. sb - 0.5$
      2. bb -1$
      3. UTG fold
      4. call -1$
      5. call -1$
      6. fold
      7. call -1$
      BU call- 1$
      sb call -0,5$
      bb check

      pot 6$

      (never there is opening raise or raise after limper, no sir. sometimes 5% of time some guy will raise after 3-4 limpers or even bb or sb (totaly out of position) with something like ATs, KQS, 77- 1010, k10s.
      THIS RAISE HAPPENS AFTER 3-4 limpers if the raiser is in position. OR TOTALY OUT OF POSITION in SB or BB) so u get the picture

      preflop 4-6 (loose passive calling stations) players who play 80% of there hands, no raise 90% of hands


      Qd 8h 3s
      there are 4-6 players in and action go something like this

      sb check
      bb check
      2 check
      3 bet -1$
      4 call -1$
      5 fold
      7 fold
      BU call -1$
      sb fold
      bb call -1$


      pot - 10$

      ( in this point people r calling with:
      aj, qj, q10, 97, ax any k any 8 any 3 even 56, any 2 suited with backdor flush draw any pocket pair.... this is really happening I'm not kidding)


      lets say 2h

      and action goes

      bb check
      3 bet -2$
      4 call - 2$
      BU call - 2$
      bb call - 2$

      pot 18

      lets say Kc

      and action goes

      bb check
      3 ( the guy who was betting on flop and turn lol) check
      4 bet -2$
      7 call -2$
      BU fold (showing that he is folding 6c6s)
      bb fold ( he had something like 3dAh)
      3 call -2$

      pot 24$

      show down


      Qd 8h 3s 2h Kc

      3 - Qh10s
      4 - 9d9c
      7- Kh 9h

      that bad they are loooooooool

      SO MY Q IS THIS:

      It so obvious that they don't have P of POKER, but I can't beat this game I'm loosing money. they are so BIG fishes that they came in every poker player wet dream but i cant'win.
      Either my hands dont hold up and u got suckout or when im on draw don't get there.
      the draws are not problem couse i'm geting so big pot odds and when i play connectors i play 80% of time suited connectors so i get some extra outs but i think that 80%-90% of my good hands got suckout hands like top top (top pair top kicker) big pockets, top pair with k or q kicker, two pairs ( they hit set with there pocket on river, or the other pair pairs on river) etc
      the problem is that i don't get ANY action and no1 ever folds for 1 bet so...
      I dont play made hands pasivly couse they all want to check, rarely someone try to steal pot or steal blinds etc etc.




      p.s. btw i'm playing regularly online pokerstars/ party poker fl 1$/2$ sh and Im not a losing player and i play also s&g 18s 27s 45s 180s - wining there too. so i don't think i'm bad but can beat this game and that's killing me. lol THEY ARE SO BAD. OMG :( (((
  • 6 replies
    • OlivierLu
      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 5,525
      The game you described lookds fantastic !!!

      My advices are quite simple : DON'T BLUFF, VALUE BET, BE TIGHT, DON'T TILT. You won't win many pot, but you'll win the biggest.

      This should make this game EV+++.
    • TheRebuz
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      thanks for advice
      I though of that and try it do it:
      I played only
      - pockets ( 22-TT-jj just for set value calling flop bet, folding turn; jj-QQ-AA raising)
      - big face cards connectors suited out of position; suited and of suited in positions
      - played 34-10j only in positions to see flop if there were min 3 limpers in front of me
      - and Ax suted just for flush if I hit A on flop i bet if it is check to me on flop with any A but check turn if get 2-3 callers (what usually happens) and scared card came on board

      I think/know that this is too little too loose for this game but they play max up to 30-35 hands per hour and we playing about 4-5 hours max. so thats total of 200 hands per session and is hard to me folding for an hour couse u know multi-tabling :) on line and.... lol

      and i played like this for last 3 sessions and this happens:

      - when i hit top i get suckout
      - when i hit set i get suckout too lol
      - didnt hit any draw
      - win 2-3 small pots when every 1 missed flop and get only 1 caller who folds turn

      and is so frustrating getting suckouts over and over again

      so I'm telling that i play in this game like 5-6 times and im losing like 300$ which i thing is very much for this game (I'm still up like 500$-600$ with those players, we play before another game little different)

      so what should I do
      do u think that this game is so good that deserve giving efforts to beat it, btw the players have 40$- 60$ max to losse when they sit and play
      my image is loose aggressive (maniac) lol ( couse i raise 1-2 of hands suited connectors like 76-56 first to go or on buton and than bet it on flop turn and river on boards like a 7 10 (with backdoor flush draw) and then i switch to tight aggressive and getting suckouts lol

      p.s. while i'm writing this i realize that i shold tight up litlle bit more
      so i should play
      - (limp) pockets (raising if im first in TT-AA, if not just QQ-AA),
      - raising AKs AKo , KQs(this hand raising only if Im firs in???),
      - limping KQo, KJs, KJo; KTs, QJs, JTs, 109s, Axs (or should I raise all of this hands if im first going in????)
      - and if there are min 3 players in front of me who limps i can also limp and play 98s,78s, 56s
      so it will be sooooooo boring but hope i'll beat it

      any suggestions about starting hands strategy and preflop play???
      and on flop should i CB with 2 over cards, or draw when with or without position
      *just one note probably in every pot will be 3 players min against me and if they like their hand they play it no matter if there is raise preflop in front of them or not - so they play q5s j6s 107s (hehe this is good 1 couse they can make str8 too lol) any way so raise preflop is just av value bet u can really thin the feeld
      if they like their hand they play it. no matter what u cant push them out preflop with raise and cant generate fold eq

      so I need advice about preflop strategy and flop strategy when i missed flop with initiative (if im preflop raiser) out and with position.
      what should my line be like if i missed flop??
    • 8979687
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Now it sucks that I can not remember where I read it, maybe 2+2, maybe some random forum after an internet search about poker...

      So I won't take credit for the article/post but I will try to relate to you what I picked up out of it....

      Was a very similar story to yours, playing in these crazy types of games, with what the person writing the article just as you did
      called FULL of the biggest fish. And after he played a few times, and lost quite a few bucks, he sat back and realized that at these
      games, he was the fish. He had underestimated the fact that these players, although they played many starting hands, and saw
      many flops, and hung on for turns and rivers, had learned from playing this way so often how to get something out of it.

      Enter you, trying to play conventional TAG poker... You will stick out like a sore thumb.

      These people may be in your eyes the worst players in the world, but they also realize that you will be playing strong hands,
      and they know that if they can catch some raggy 2 pair combo or any kind of wacky hand, and you hit so much as top pair, they will get you
      to pay them alot of money because you will be convinced you have the best hand every time.

      Long story short he ended up adapting to his new found mental findings, and he was able to fold more often when he should have,
      because he started getting frustrated and opening up his range and playing worse poker trying to chase his losses.

      He ended up getting a fair profit from the situation.

      So I would suggest the same to you, respect your opponents, and give them credit.

      Play against them but know them for what they are and how they play, do not just write them off as stupid fish and assume
      that it is they who are making all the mistakes.....

      Which you have a good start on since you are posting here asking for advice about it.

      Again its too bad I forget where I read it. I hate not being able to give credit.
    • TheRebuz
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      thats true i agree
      but they are all bad loose CS fish
      they all got a lot of tells lololol and i know when they got good hand and i know when they r on draw or had bad hand and calling for miracle 3-5 outs

      and NO i don't pay them of i know exactly were I'm in the hand and i'm pushing when i had best of it and check/fold if there is bad card and line goes bet/raise with top pair when i'm drawing to 2-5 outs max or check call 1 bet hoping to improve on river and I'm right in 90% so...

      thanks for advice anyway

      P.S. u all got to see this game in order to believe me how bad they are and how sick that game really is
      in the end winner is the guy who is lucky that night

      P.S. and I'm up $$$ from them couse we play different game and we play little higher, the bet was like 3$ and there wasnt so many players seeing flop and they were folding there week draws and week hands on flop or on turn.
      so I thought that I need to make them to play little higher and get them out of their comford zone so they tight up and start folding couse its obvious this game is too cheap for them lollol and they are playing bingo/loto no foldem holdem :)
    • ciRith
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hi TheRebuz,

      you should beat the game easily. You just have to know that the swing will be HUGE!
      f you aren't tilt resistent then don't play this game.

      Stick to our chart but tighten up with all hands that only play well iwith a few players (weak aces etc.).
      You can limp in with any small pair, a lot of suited connectors as ou will win bi pots when you hit a good flop.

      Don't bluff nor semibluff. Don't do continutation bets when you don't hit.

      Happy playing. :)
    • TheRebuz
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 2,078
      ok th
      i'll try it that way