Smileyphil's Multitabling SSS Nightmare

    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
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      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      Hi everyone!

      Background:
      I'm back again for another exciting and hopefully vaguely interesting blog on the SSS. This time my focus is on blasting through the hands and making some serious cash. My last blog (for those who remember) saw me playing SSS through NL10 and NL25 on 6/9 tables at a time with a fair bit of success.

      However as we do I got rather sidetracked and ended up withdrawing the cash to travel a little bit. Was rather nice but anyhow now I'm back and feeling the need for some extreme pokering.

      The Plan:
      I currently have a small Bankroll left on Pokerstars (Just $37) but I will start on NL10 and instead of grinding out with few tables I'm going to learn to stack the tables and play 20/24 tables like a proper grinder. Its something I've never got the hang of brilliantly but have dabbled in so I will take it as it comes and try not to make too many mistakes!

      Aims:
      - Get the hang of playing simple SSS on as many as 24 tables comfortably.
      - Play half hour sessions and after assess all the hands to look for leaks.
      - Learn how to use the various pieces of software that will help me along the way.
      - Eventually move up to NL25.

      Help!
      If anyone knows any good bits of multitabling software for use on Pokerstars that'd be great. The main part I am having trouble with is that when a table has reserved a spot for me I then have to present the table infront of all the others in order to seat and buyin. If I could automate this I think it would be much more relaxing to play.

      Phil :)
  • 8 replies
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
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      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      First Thoughts - Time Wasting:
      So I've run a few sessions to get a feel for stacking tables. The first one I did with just HEM running. It proved dificult at times and I found I was wasting a lot of time clicking buttons that really had nothing to do with my poker playing. So I went out looking for some AHK scripts to try and cut out some of the nastier obstacles.

      Stars Assistant:
      The first AHK I found was a handy little program that just banished a few popups, highlighted the current table (not so important when stacking), moves the mouse to near the buttons (dead useful) and finally auto seats when a seat is available. Its a nice little addition and is very easy to use. I would recommend it for anyone who is multitabling at all.

      Stars Planner:
      Next I came across Stars Planner. This reduces yet more of the popups (including the dreaded "Do you really want to leave the table?") it also has an auto buyin option which unfortunately is limited to full stacks only so that is no-use. Perhaps I will figure out how to adapt it to Short Stacking sometime because that would really cut out some time wasting.

      Bet Pot:
      This looks very nice but is proving to be a bit buggy on Pokerstars. In theory it automatically bets the "correct" amount with a single click of the middle mouse button. However I am having some troubles getting this to work. In theory it should be very useful if I can get it to work smoothly though.

      If anyone else is interested in these programs they can be found rather easily just by searching "AHK PokerStars" and the name of the program you want.

      Phil :)
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Hi Phil, this looks like it should be an interesting read. I have some advice for you though!

      In your targets it says you should play Half Hour long sessions. I suggest you play Hour to Hour and a Half long Sessions as it take quite a while to get 24 tables up and running. You will, quite literally, be spending most of your playing time booting up new tables instead of playing.

      My Other suggestion is more standard and you may have already heard it before, but I'll say it again in case you havn't;

      As you've only played 6 to 9 tables before It could be useful to try a slightly more softly softly approach. Eg, start on 14 as the max n0 of tables, then add 1 to the max number of tables each session till you feel uncomfortable with less time to think, start to fold good hands by accident etc. Then you can practice with this number of tables till you are comfortable again and can add another to your max n0 of tables allowed. This will stop you from getting involved in too many tables to handle and end up donking away chips with rushed decisions.

      Hope it helps! :D
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
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      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      DaPhunk:
      Hi good to see you DaPhunk. So far I've been experimenting with around 12/15. It seems easy enough with them open but it can become a bit of a panic as I try to open the next one because it covers up the others as I buyin! Nuisance. Its all practice though and because I am more used to tiling it is taking a while.

      Not Caring What Happens:
      I notice one thing is that when you go allin you can't see what happens. Trying to follow tables around while they are stacked is virtually impossible and realistically its better not to worry about it.

      This is both an advantage and disadvantage. On the one hand it virtually eliminates all tilt because you can't see when you are sucked out on. However it is imperative that we play mathematically because we could just throw money away and never realise if we start to donk away. Of course this is really a blessing - being forced to play by the stats is never a bad thing.

      Keeping It Simple:
      I have also noticed that because we cannot track the flow of individual hands as easily it is much more important to be in easily indentifiable situations. It also means that in some tricky situations (freeplays) we cannot easily identify whether we are ahead or behind. To this end I have tightened up my freeplay play to situations where we have strong draws or where we have two pair or better (depends on the board sometimes). This has really helped because instead of playing a weirdo pot control/protection line with top pair/bad kicker (which never really made much cash) I just chuck them away and get on with the profitable hands.

      Future Aims:
      So far its been fairly basic SSS. The Stats are open (habit) but I am hardly using them. In order to improve efficiently I think I should work on situations where I can move all in preflop (the less flop play the better when multitabling):

      a) Memorise and use the Sklansky ranges. To start with I will just use the <25BB range so that it ignores my stack size but once I have that down I may consider the <20BB range as well. This is easy because it does not involve postflop play at all.

      b) Memorise some common Resteal and Reraise values. Probably start with AQs and TT because these are hands I often consider Restealing/Reraising with and then decide just to play it safe.

      c) Work out some basic calling ranges. I get the feeling those fishies are getting away with a few 3bets that they shouldn't. I think I might just assume they have a JJ+, AK range to start with though as 3bet stat is fairly poor until I have a large sample.

      Phil :)
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by Smileyphil
      DaPhunk:
      it can become a bit of a panic as I try to open the next one because it covers up the others as I buyin! Nuisance.
      Very True. This trick is, I find to not mind at all pressing the "no" box (on waitlist popup). Its no use trying to get rid of that popup any other way. Just click *no* and be done with it. Sort out the tables you were trying to make moves on and rejoin that particular tables waiting list. Tables you have active are Far more important than tables you are merely queued for :D Deal with them first!

      I also have some hopefully helpful comments for you *future aims* section;

      (Bear in mind, I am drunk whislt I write this)

      a) I do not using the Sklansky chart with above 12 - 13 BB or so. If I have between 8 and 15BB on any one table for whatever reason and decide to openshove, I have a tendancy to shove according to a chart Xylere provided in his Silver NL100 video. This is tighter/nittier than sklansky which I feel is a good thing.

      b) Unknown Re-Steal range is AJ+ 88+ pour moi occasionaly KQs and KQo. AQs, TT+ is way too tight for a re-steal range imo. If you are looking to memorise the Re-Steal chart, it should happen naturally if you print out the chart and check it whilst playing. You pretty quickly get to know <50% re-steal ranges for multitabling.

      c) I recommend getting out the Equilator for this one and making some of your own charts! Not only will it give you some useful practice in the Equity field, but it will also aid your memory and possibly understanding. You play NL10 and you are giving most villains JJ+ AK+? Thats a bit too tight isn't it? You have Elephant so try pluggin some of those stats you have into the equilator, see what ranges come out and get yourself a calling range :D

      Hope It Helps - DaPhunk
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      DaPhunk:
      Great advice thanks its good to know how other people play it because I have plenty more to learn!

      I have a few questions though:
      a) Are you saying you never open shove with more than 15BB? I currently rebuy at 15BB so that I don't have to deal with different stack sizes while I am getting used to multitabling. I thought the Sklansky chart was sort of unexploitable?

      b) I've got the steal chart printed and ready to go. I still feel a bit stupid when I shove AJ into KK but I guess its the times they fold that really make the money. I'm trying to think of it that we are making our game as perfect as possible and its upto them to make the mistakes. Which means that breakeven equity is a great thing to have because there is always the chance they will make a mistake.

      c) Yes JJ+, AK is tight for NL10 but on the other hand I'm not really sure what sort of range to give them. The 3bet stat is inaccurate until I get a much larger sample. My rough calculations suggest that I need 1:2 to call with AQs and TT. The other hands are pretty easy folds or calls because we will almost never have better odds than 1:2 and we never really get bad enough odds to fold JJ.
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      First Results - Negative:
      Well in terms of Money I'm down about 10BI over 4k hands. Thats not very promising but looking at my play it seems like I am playing exactly how I would play if I had all the time in the world to think.

      I have checked the moves fairly carefully (no-one wants to be playing badly AND have a downswing) but I think its actually not bad play for the most part.

      I noticed a few situations I could have made Reraises that I didn't (basic strategy so far) but I should still be showing profit without these.

      I will see if I can get out of this swing. Nothing reckless though. Just keep on trecking away sensibly :)
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
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      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Hi Phil. To answer your questions;

      1) To put it Bluntly, Yes, I never open shove with over 15BB. It is good you are rebuying at this level though, as on NL10 rake will almost definately be too high to play profitably with such a reduced stack as is lower than that.

      Yes, the theory goes that the sklansky-shove chart is unexploitable. However, whether it is the most +ev method is a different matter. You will likely extract far less value out of most of your good hands yet you still play some more marginal spots with the weaker hands which leads to more variance too.

      2) You shouldn't feel stupid if Villain has KK+ what matters is that you made the right move with a hand that was +EV against his stealing range (taking into account FE of course).

      You are right that when they fold you can make a lot of money, as a lot of people know what Stealing is and do it too much, but never call! A foldto3betLate stat can be very useful for working out who to exploit.

      I also try to think in terms of making my game as perfect as possible but in the form of minimising mistakes. Even small things can have a surprisingly large effect on our winrate.

      3) It can be hard to give people 3betting ranges sometimes, especially as (in FR) they will 3bet weaker hands vs Shortstackers that they would merely call against a bigstack. Without playing NL10 on your site I can't really give you what an average 3betting range would be though. It differs greatly villain to villain.

      Hope it Help. Do you have Skype or Msn by the way? I quite like your analytical stylings so might be nice to have a chat if you have any more questions. (Going through this stuff helps my game too :D )
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
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      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Hi,

      Where do you find the suitable tables to use SSS? I play at FTP but on almost each table there are at least 2-3 SS, not saying SSS of course... So which table stats do you use to pick the right tables?

      Thx