Mansion vs. Titan Rakeback

    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      As I promised :)
      Here are calculations I just made.
      Enjoy.


      a. I will use my own data. You put FL FR 0.5/1 in calculators, my calculation will be based on my own hands on 0.5/1 FL SH (22395 hands).
      b. I will do several calculations. Some in favour of Mansion and some in favour of Titan (number of hands to reach xyz level rank).


      Titan and Mansion are on the same network, so rake is the same, but distribution of points isn't. That's why I wrote a script for Holdem Manager, which will calculate how many points I get with xyz hands on each platform.
      Numbers I will be using:
      Titan:


      Mansion:



      FL SH 0.5/1 Mansion/Titan
      22395 hands
      673,44$ rake
      3BB/100 rake paid



      1. Lets say, we make 15k hands on FL SH 0.5/1.
      Rake generated: 451,06$.
      Mansion Points generated: 12557,88 points.
      Titan Points generated: 10651,34.

      On Mansion we reach Pro Member Status (8k points), so we get boost of 150%.
      On Titan we reach Platinum Level (10k points), so we get boost of 60%.

      After boost
      Mansion: 31394,7 points
      Titan: 17042,14 points

      Lets say we buy 1000$ (480k points) bonus at Mansion and 800$ (80k points) at Titan.

      Mansion
      (31394,7/480000*1000) / 451,06 = 14,5% "rakeback"

      Titan
      (17042,14/80000*800) / 451,06 = 37,78% "rakeback"

      As it looks like, this case is closed, but I will do some more calculations anyway.



      2. In previous calculation, we just reached Platinum level with 15k hands on Titan, so this time we will do less hands - 10k.
      Rake generated: 300,71$
      Mansion Points generated: 8371,92.
      Titan Points generated: 7100,76.

      On Mansion we reach Pro Member Status (8k points), so we get boost of 150%.
      On Titan we reach Gold Level (5k points), so we get boost of 40%.

      After boost
      Mansion: 20929,8 points
      Titan: 9941,06 points

      We again buy 1k and 0.8k bonus.


      Mansion
      (20929,8/480000*1000) / 300,71 = 14,5% "rakeback"

      Titan
      (9941,06/80000*800) / 300,71 = 33,06% "rakeback"

      Difference is still HUGE.
      We know Mansion has 3 and 6 months bonuses too, so lets add them.

      3 months (+30k on Pro level):

      ((3*20929,8 + 30000)/480000*1000) / (300,71*3) = 21,43% "rakeback".

      Still, not even close. What about 6 monhts?

      6 monhts (+120750 on Pro level):
      ((6*20929,8 + 120750)/480000*1000) / (300,71*6) = 28,44% "rakeback".

      Close, but not close enough.



      3. Ok, OK, maybe higher limits will do?
      Lets try FL SH 1/2 with just enough hands to hit Elite Member on Mansion (13k hands).


      FL SH 1/2 Mansion
      23675 hands

      1478,99$ rake
      3,12BB/100 rake paid


      Rake generated: 874,59$
      Mansion Points generated: 20228,95.
      Titan Points generated: 17548,39.

      On Mansion we reached Elite Member status (20k) so we get boost of 250%.
      On Titan we reached Titanium Level (17k, damn their VIP system is really bullet proof :D ), so we get boost of 100%.

      After boost
      Mansion: 70801,33 points
      Titan: 35096,78 points

      Mansion
      (70801,33/480000*1000) / 874,59 = 16,9% "rakeback"

      Titan
      (35096,78/80000*800) / 874,59 = 40,1% "rakeback"

      LOL

      3 months (+105000)
      ((3*70801,33 + 10500)/480000*1000) / (874,59*3) = 25,2% "rakeback".

      6 months (+440000)
      ((6*70801,33 + 440000)/480000*1000) / (874,59*6) = 34,33% "rakeback".

      6 months of grinding to be "close".


      4. Just for fun. Let's hit the highest level possible at Mansion (420k hands per month).
      Rake generated: 26237$
      Mansion Points: 606868.
      Titan Points: 526481

      After boost
      Mansion: 3944642.
      Titan: 1158258.

      This time we buy 100k and 125k cash bonuses (maximum value possible for both).

      Mansion
      (3944642/32000000*100000) / 26237 = 46,98% "rakeback"

      Titan
      (1158258/7000000*125000) / 26237 = 78,83% "rakeback"

      No comment...

      Its 3:15AM but I will calculate for 6 months anyway, even though it's waste of time (obv).

      ((6*3944642 + 16000000)/32000000*100000) / (26237*6) = 78,75% "rakeback".

      SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO close. Better luck next time, Mansion.



      Final conclusion.
      Titan >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mansion
      You'd need to grind for half a year as Diamond Club to be even. Good luck with that.
  • 105 replies
    • Volrath89
      Volrath89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 2,170
      Wow nice post, so I'm losing my time at Mansion apparently =/ (I'm already in the 4th month so I can't quit for now..)

      Does Titan have happy hours every week and a complete day of happy hour per month too?
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      Originally posted by Volrath89
      Wow nice post, so I'm losing my time at Mansion apparently =/ (I'm already in the 4th month so I can't quit for now..)

      x10000000000000000000
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Wow. I play at Mansion and am thinking about changing it but for the first time i see Titan is not such a bad idea.
    • imson0ob
      imson0ob
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 80
      Exactly what I was looking for . Thanks alot for that great post man :D
    • slikec
      slikec
      Global
      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 1,155
      Very nice post CoreySteel you also forgot to add Titan have also small loyalty monthly boosts so playing at Mansion is never even close to Titan. Difference is just huge btw :f_eek: :f_o:
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      Originally posted by slikec
      Very nice post CoreySteel you also forgot to add Titan have also small loyalty monthly boosts so playing at Mansion is never even close to Titan. Difference is just huge btw :f_eek: :f_o:
      I didn't forget anything, it's all there. Look closer :)
      Those boost aren't so small when looking at big picture.
    • Danny917
      Danny917
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2008 Posts: 2,326
      Tyvm for that comparison. Thats actually what I expected, but now I see it more clearly. I will need to move away asap, maybe P*, maybe FTP? I'll see... ;)
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Add to this you now get 6 strategy points per $ of rake until 4 September. :f_eek:

      Freakin' and I really mean FREAKIN' sick.
    • Danny917
      Danny917
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2008 Posts: 2,326
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Add to this you now get 6 strategy points per $ of rake until 4 September. :f_eek:

      Freakin' and I really mean FREAKIN' sick.
      Yep. Sad but true :s_mad:
    • Amirapuato
      Amirapuato
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2007 Posts: 1,105
      Seems I'll be returning to Titan soon (next month). :f_biggrin:

      At 1/2 SH (108k hands sample, June-August)

      1.3100 MCP/hand
      1.1365 TP/hand

      :spade: Monthly play: 80k hands (hopefully mixing some 2/4 to lower this). :f_p:

      MANSION
      :diamond: 104800 MCP/month (VIP: Diamond 1)
      :diamond: 576400 boosted MCP/month (boost = 450%)
      :diamond: 6-month boost = 2070000/6 = 345000 extra MCP/month
      :diamond: 921400 total MCP/month = $2500 rakeback/month

      But only if I play 6 consecutive months, buying two $7500 bonuses (one after 5 months and the other after 6 months). And I'm never allowed to play less than 76k hands/month.

      TITAN
      :heart: 90920 TP/month (VIP: Diamond)
      :heart: 200000 boosted TP/month (boost = 120%)
      :heart: 200k total TP/month = $2670 rakeback/month

      I can cash every 3rd month (taking the $8000 bonus), and I can play as few as 30k hands/month. I can even take a month off if I want.


      Thanks for the topic CoreySteel. :s_love:
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Nice calculation indeed, but you didnt take into account such details as happy hours and double-points-days (I know it's impossible)..

      In my (!) personal conditions, it's better to play on Mansion as my July's results show:

      Mansion rakeback: 91.6% (up to 98.6%)
      Titan rakeback: 83.4% (max. possible)

      sure, I took into account those small races too, so it's 86.4% (up to 93.4%) on Mansion and those up to 83.4% on Titan..

      On the other hand, if you reach Diamond3 on Mansion, it's possible to get a bit over 100% (including at least $4000 from PS).

      You can't say X is better than Y in general, because every limit, every game has different conditions and there are small details which change the results significantly. Just my 2 cents...
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      Yeah, you are right, but these numbers are still correct for 95% of players.
      Other 5% don't care about these calculations anyway :D

      I never played at happy hours, only on 1st of the month, which is 1/30 of a time. Nothing almost.
      (double points are excluded from these calculations!)

      Like I said.... For us, normal people, Titan is better. For grinding machines... Well that's another story :f_biggrin:
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      A stupid question.

      It is 12:32 now n i will go to bed soon that is why i did not read the thread completely so sorry for this question but i wanted to know.

      Does your calculation include the rakeback by ps or only points based?
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      PokerStrategy doesn't have any rakeback on Mansion or Titan.

      These calculation aren't really rakeback, but "rakeback" in form of Cash Bonuses that you can buy from either shop with collected points.
    • brian997
      brian997
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 475
      Now what would be interesting is comparing both of these to bet365, which is also on the ipoker network :) *hint, hint*
      I ran some numbers myself and found it to be better than titan. Can you check it?
      -Brian
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Ah ok thanks.

      After clearing my bonus on mansion and cashout i will move all to Titan poker then.Unfortunately i was not registered with PS T___T
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      Originally posted by brian997
      Now what would be interesting is comparing both of these to bet365, which is also on the ipoker network :) *hint, hint*
      I ran some numbers myself and found it to be better than titan. Can you check it?
      -Brian
      Oh, Brian, Brian... I'm so ahead of you :D
      bet365 is no better than Titan. In fact it's way worse.
      bet365 Rakeback & MP/100

      Originally posted by CoreySteel
      Rakeback 200% up to 600$ Bonus
      (10$ for 1200 Merit Points (MP))
      FL SH 0.1/0.2 (20k hands) = 19,34% RB = about 8100 hands for 10$/1200 MP
      FL SH 0.25/0.50 (22k hands) = 16,09% RB = about 3700 hands for 10$/1200 MP
      FL SH 0.5/1 (25k hands) = 17,74% RB = about 1875 hands for 10$/1200 MP
      FL SH 1/2 (62k hands) = 13,74% RB = about 1165 hands per 10$/1200 MP
      FL SH 2/4 (3,6k hands) = 16,09% RB = 490 hands per 10$/1200 MP


      Merit Points per 100 hands
      FL SH 0.1/0.2 (20k hands) = about 14,85 MP/100
      FL SH 0.25/0.50 (22k hands) = about 32,42 MP/100
      FL SH 0.5/1 (25k hands) = about 64 MP/100
      FL SH 1/2 (62k hands) = about 103 MP/100
      FL SH 2/4 (3,6k hands) = about 243 MP/100


      Rake
      FL SH 0.1/0.2 (20k hands) = 3,19 BB/100 rake paid
      FL SH 0.25/0.50 (22k hands) = 3,3 8BB/100 rake paid
      FL SH 0.5/1 (25k hands) = 3 BB/100 rake paid
      FL SH 1/2 (62k hands) = 3,12 BB/100 rake paid
      FL SH 3/6 (10k hands) = 3,30 BB/100 rake paid
      FL SH 5/10 (22k hands) = 2349BB/100 rake paid



      Cash Rewards
      10$ for 2000 MP
      FL SH 0.1/0.2 (20k hands) = 11,64% RB = about 13500 hands
      FL SH 0.25/0.50 (22k hands) = 9,66% RB = about 6170 hands
      FL SH 0.5/1 (25k hands) = 10,64% RB = about 3125 hands
      FL SH 1/2 (62k hands) = 8,24% RB = about 1940 hands
      FL SH 2/4 (3,6k hands) = 9,62% = about 820 hands


      600$ for 50000 MCP
      FL SH 0.5/1 (25k hands) = 25,54% RB = about 78000 hands
      FL SH 1/2 (62k hands) = 19,78% RB = about 48560 hands
      FL SH 2/4 (3,6k hands) = 23,1% RB = about 20530 hands


      Will do rest tomorrow.
      Quick compare with Titan and Mansion:
      Mansion vs. Titan Rakeback
    • Ensyfer
      Ensyfer
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2007 Posts: 317
      CoreySteel this your calculations... marvelous job u did!!
      However, i would need sth like that from a NL player :D

      I suggest an admin should move them to appropriate topic and make a sticky on it. So that this valuable information never gets lost.

      Did anyone do a similiar calculation for us NL players?
      I would do it myself but at this time, my database aint big enough just yet.
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      If someone sends me his hands, I can do calculations :)