[NL20-NL50] NL25 FR, TT FH on river

    • jenoc
      jenoc
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 510
      CO is 19/11 AF=2.0 fold to cbet 0% on 206 hands

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
      SB ($25.47)
      BB ($10.74)
      Hero ($25.35)
      UTG+1 ($6.64)
      UTG+2 ($5)
      CO ($19.55)
      BTN ($9.17)

      Dealt to Hero T:club: T:diamond:

      Hero raises to $1, UTG+1 calls $1, fold, CO calls $1, fold, fold, fold

      FLOP ($3.35) 3:club: K:club: 4:diamond:

      Hero bets $1.80, UTG+1 folds, CO calls $1.80

      TURN ($6.95) 3:club: K:club: 4:diamond: 3:spade:

      Hero bets $4, CO calls $4

      RIVER ($14.95) 3:club: K:club: 4:diamond: 3:spade: T:spade:

      Hero bets $14, CO folds

      The reason why I'm betting again turn is his fold to cbet stat and from time to time I see people floating any boards just because IP. But what about river if he called that turn? IMO if he really has that K he will call anything, but if I check, he might bet with K himself + try to bluff if he really was floating. What would be the best play here?
  • 5 replies
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      wow, interesting hand. I've made these bets on turn before to avoid getting floated but never really know if they're a good idea or not.

      If we know Villain floats a lot can we C/C turn or will we just run into trouble on river a lot? Villain could now put us on a weak K say and think we are a bit weaktight looking to fold it with another check and he'll just barrel again.

      Having barrelled turn and hit our miracle set on river can he now fold a weak K himself to our 3rd barrel? You could be right jenoc in thinking that a C/C or C/R line could be of better value.
    • jenoc
      jenoc
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 510
      DaPhunk,

      I'm not sure about such turn bets either, lol :f_p: but my nonSD winnings look much better (ofc. could be variance as I'm only 9k hands @ NL25) than on NL10 where in such situations I was just check/folding turn. Well, if I think, you're right- if I assume he's floating, than it would be better to check/call, but I kinda feel more comfortable just betting my self to be sure where I stand with my hand :f_biggrin:
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I´d likely c/c turn, since I think that players can often float there or call with worse hands and then take stab on the turn
      that often means I have to c/c river, since their hands become polarized, they either have strong Kx or floats and missed draws tend to be more accurate than monsters on that point
      bet less river, potsize is too much to call with Kx. I think 10 is better bet size.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      I´d likely c/c turn, since I think that players can often float there or call with worse hands and then take stab on the turn
      that often means I have to c/c river, since their hands become polarized, they either have strong Kx or floats and missed draws tend to be more accurate than monsters on that point
      bet less river, potsize is too much to call with Kx. I think 10 is better bet size.
      Hold on, so with a mid-PP if we decide villain is often floating turn and we decide to C/C we also have to normally call a small-midsize bet river as He'll either have the K or decide to bluff his air again? Is his river-barrelling range then basically the same?

      If we ourselves are to float a turn and have villain call on a board like this is it a good idea to barrel again on river?
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      Vast problem, it could take hours. I'll try and make it short tho, bump it again if you don't get something i say.

      Against players with moderate aggression at nl25 i'd probably bet/fold the turn because they can show up there with worse pocket pairs, random draws, Kx, A-high etc and we have no idea what they'll do with those, players are just too different in these big player pools. So out of position i'm firing again for value against worse hands that will call again and to take the pot down right there instead of starting a guessing game by checking to them not knowing if they'll pot air or check behind worse hands.

      Kaitz's c/c line is good against players on whom you have a better read and that are okay handreaders. They'll know you're often giving up when you check that turn so they'll fire away, and when you call their bet they'll still put you on a weak range based on the fact that you didn't bet or c/r that turn, which would likely be your lines with your good hands. Which is why you can expect them to again try and push you off your weakish hands on the river, forcing you to make the calldown provided they are at all aggressive.


      Hope it helps.