have areally interesting Q about rakeback

    • advola
      advola
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2009 Posts: 361
      I tought about it right now - on the profit of the poker site from rake.
      I will give you an example:

      let take a 9 handed table of a cash game stakes 0.5$/1$
      let say they are in that table, 4 plyrs who got a rakeback
      deal - from this site maiby or others.
      So ( take full tilt deal of 27% rakeback)
      all the 4 rakeback players get rakeback if they post blinds regardless if they play the pot or not.
      So that 4 get together 27%*4= 108% rackback
      that is meen that full tilt actualy lose 8% money for that table rake hand after hand???
      If so - so what if they are 8rakebackers the site is losing big money??
      WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT IT??
      P.s sorry for my english - its a 2nd lang of mine...
  • 13 replies
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Hi,

      Hmm, funny question :)

      Is this true: "all the 4 rakeback players get rakeback if they post blinds regardless if they play the pot or not." ???

      and "if they post blinds " => means you are in SB or BB ???
    • Espire2k6
      Espire2k6
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.07.2009 Posts: 3
      lol... :D its 27% rakeback for that 1 PLAYER so lets say 10 players... 0.50$/1$
      all 10 players are taking rakeback...
      pot is 100$(everyplayer gave same amount) and rake is 5% = 5$...
      so 5$/10 = 0.50$ for each player as RAKE for that hand...
      but e.g."fulltilt" will give back 27% of THAT 0.50$ RAKE back to that ONE! Player
      so 0.50 x 0.27 (27%) = rakeback ...
      so still its more than 3$ for e.g. fulltilt
    • advola
      advola
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2009 Posts: 361
      Originally posted by Espire2k6
      lol... :D its 27% rakeback for that 1 PLAYER so lets say 10 players... 0.50$/1$
      all 10 players are taking rakeback...
      pot is 100$(everyplayer gave same amount) and rake is 5% = 5$...
      so 5$/10 = 0.50$ for each player as RAKE for that hand...
      but e.g."fulltilt" will give back 27% of THAT 0.50$ RAKE back to that ONE! Player
      so 0.50 x 0.27 (27%) = rakeback ...
      so still its more than 3$ for e.g. fulltilt
      i am soory but you wrong what i say was wright
      if the pot rake is 5$ you get 27% even if you didn't played the pot
      and only posted blind and dealt cards (even if you not on the bb or sb for that hand or folded the hand)
      that is how you get ftp's to
    • DaWeef
      DaWeef
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.02.2008 Posts: 19
      Well, you're close, but so far away too...

      You are forgetting that the rake is being evenly distributed over the players at the table:

      When calculating rake, Full Tilt use the dealt method. This applies to ringgames and means that whenever you are dealt cards, you earn a part of the table rake. The total rake collected by Full Tilt is evenly distributed amongst every player on a table, no matter if the player contributes money to the pot or folds his cards preflop.

      So the calculation should be:

      Rabeback paid by fulltilt = (Rake/nr. of players) * (players with rakeback * 27%)

      Which in ur example makes: 4/9 * 27% = 12% of total rake
    • natethegreat
      natethegreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2008 Posts: 5
      Hello,
      As I understand it:

      You get FTPs at Full Tilt based on the rake taken from the pot when you were dealt a hand. This is different from the 27% rakeback on the rake you yourself pay. In the $5 rake example, everyone would get 3 FTPs (theoretically 5, 1 FTP per $1 rake, but Full Tilt limits to 3 FTP per hand). The amount of rakeback each player would receive depends on how much he invested in the pot, i.e., how much of the rake that was taken was paid by him directly. If, for example, UTG folds directly, he would get 3 FTPs for the hand, but since he did not contribute any money towards the rake taken, no rakeback (or rather, 27% of 0).
    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      108% in a 900% table is a good deal


      because they pay 100% rake, but each one gets 27% back. So if 10 players take rakeback the total would be 270% so in a 10 man table 2.7 of them don't pay rake, but the other 7.3 pay rake so they never lose. Also some of them pay more rake and some get less rakeback.
    • advola
      advola
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2009 Posts: 361
      thanks for clearing that deal up for me
      but DAWEEF
      i think NATETHEGREAT is more right then you
      becouse y i should "lose" rake % if i play with another 3 rakebackers?
      and i cant know it either

      i gess its like nate said rakeback is not like ftp's and it pay you back with your paid rake

      i gess i got mix with the bonuses and rake and ftp's
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Hello advola,

      As i understand you have to be dealt in the hand to count for the rakeback. Now your rakeback is counted from the rake at the table. If there are 6 players at the table and the pot is raked for $3 then your rake counts as $0.50. Now you would get 27% of that back so you would receive $0.135 in rakeback.

      FTPs are completely different to rakeback btw ;)

      Hope this helps!

      Regards,

      -Jack
    • advola
      advola
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2009 Posts: 361
      so the most rakeback a player can get in full tilt is 0.135$ per hand??
      thats sux
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Originally posted by advola
      so the most rakeback a player can get in full tilt is 0.135$ per hand??
      thats sux
      Well it depends on how much the rake cap is (usually $3) and how many players are at the table ;)

      -Jack
    • KidPokersKid
      KidPokersKid
      Global
      Joined: 27.02.2009 Posts: 653
      Just remember poker sites and for that matter casinos were not made to give out money the house never loses lol
    • steIIstuI
      steIIstuI
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,587
      Originally posted by advola
      so the most rakeback a player can get in full tilt is 0.135$ per hand??
      thats sux

      Actually it's very good for SSS players and for tight players overall.
    • DaWeef
      DaWeef
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.02.2008 Posts: 19
      @Advola, I don't think you understood my post... I never said you are getting less rakeback when you play with players that also get rakeback. (In my earlier example the 12% was in comparison to the 108% you came up with...)
      I said Rakeback is calculated only for your portion of the rake, which is the total rake divided by the number of players that was dealt in...

      If rake is $3, and 6 players are dealt in, Fulltilt calculates 3/6 = $0,50 rake for each player.

      Rakeback is then 27% of $0,50

      This way of calculating means that rakeback is the same for everybody at the table (with a rakeback account).
      As steIIstuI remarked, this means that tight players profit most from rakeback, because they personally generate less rake than loose players, but do get the same amount of rakeback...

      I am actually in the process of building a website comparing rake and rakeback systems for the main pokersites. When it is finished I'll post the link...



      Ps. The maximum rakeback per hand, thus also depends on the amount of players dealt in... If rake is $3 and only 3 players are dealt in, this amounts to the staggering sum of $1 * 27% = $0,27 rakeback! Weeeeee ;)