[NL2-NL10] NL50 SSS - Facing too many coinflips

    • Pedrocampos110
      Pedrocampos110
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.04.2008 Posts: 1,457
      In this first hand the guy had a 3% 3bet range.. I had 40% of breakeven equity and then I looked AKo VS 3% range in xarry2 chart and i saw it was 39,8. So I should have folded here??

      $0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
      9 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG vulgokrusty ($50.75)
      UTG+1 Hero ($10.00)
      MP1 CME-225 ($52.45)
      MP2 ckross ($21.90)
      MP3 Portokalos ($41.10)
      CO owheel ($54.25)
      BTN Sharpie82 ($50.45)
      SB LoganVCP ($77.30)
      BB sanovia8 ($29.50)

      Pre-flop: ($0.75, 9 players) Hero is UTG+1 A: K:
      1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, ckross raises to $6.50, 5 folds, Hero raises to $10, ckross calls $3.50

      Flop: :7c: :2c: :4d: ($20.75, 2 players)

      Turn: :6d: ($20.75, 2 players)

      River: :4s: ($20.75, 2 players)

      Final Pot: $20.75
      ckross shows: Q: Q:
      Hero shows: A: K:

      ckross wins $19.75 ( won +$9.75 )
      Hero lost -$10

      Ok, now in the 2nd hand the guy was a 20/3.5 but only 54 hands.. standard play?



      $0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
      9 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG 10minus ($10.00)
      UTG+1 owheel ($50.95)
      MP1 Sharpie82 ($63.30)
      MP2 LoganVCP ($96.80)
      MP3 sanovia8 ($35.85)
      CO vulgokrusty ($50.75)
      BTN Hero ($10.00)
      SB likestowhine ($50.00)
      BB mikesss777 ($10.00)

      Pre-flop: ($0.75, 9 players) Hero is BTN J: J:
      4 folds, sanovia8 raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, sanovia8 calls $7

      Flop: :4h: A: :9d: ($20.75, 2 players)

      Turn: :2c: ($20.75, 2 players)

      River: :7d: ($20.75, 2 players)

      Final Pot: $20.75
      sanovia8 shows: A: A:
      Hero shows: J: J:

      sanovia8 wins $19.75 ( won +$9.75 )
      Hero lost -$10



      I know the 2nd hand is not a coin flip, but I have been facing alot of coin flips..
      For example If I am playing a 40/20 donkey and he has 1% of 3betting and I have AK, should I fold?? I know he is a donkey, but his 3bet range is so small.. because against a 14/8 or this kind of stats I would certainly fold here.. All my opoonents have 0-5% 3bet range.. so I almost all of the times am facing coin flips or just coolers... I dont know what to do lol..

      I am doing a good table selection with telescope...

      obs: I am from portuguese community and we dont have a good traffic on the SSS forum , so i decided to post here.. sorry for bad english! and thanks for everyone that helps me!!
  • 5 replies
    • RahXephon1
      RahXephon1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      I think that for an accurate 3bet range you need an incredible amount of hands to see any accuracy, also from what I understand the value can be distorted from Blind battles. I prefer to look at his pfr and agression factor to deduce if someone is really tight.

      About the coinflips, you have to live with them, this is not where the profit lays, but when you already have money invested a coinflip is better than a fold.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Hi Pedrocampos110!

      1st Hand)

      Villain is Shortstacked. If he has typical SS stats 10/10 for example then I may find a fold here.

      Why?

      Well, If he is a good Shortstack, he will note we play SSS too and will have a read on our UTG+1 opening range which is JJ+ AK+. Now, If we open this range He cannot 3bet AKo, JJ or maybe AKs as these hands look in pretty bad shape against us. I think he will 3bet QQ+ maybe AKs against us at loosest If he's a thinking shortstack.

      This leads us to thinking his 3bet range is far too tight to call against and we can lay the hand down.

      2nd Hand)

      Villain is in MP3, so with just 54 hands I make the standard play and 3bet push him all in. If we get more hands on him and have positional stats showing that he is very tight we may find a fold here and only raise him with a tighter range like QQ+ AKs.


      On the 3betting Stat)

      In my opinion you should regard the 3betting Statistic with a pinch of Salt. You need a lot of hands before it gets halfway accurate and villains can often change their 3betting habits depending on the villain etc.

      Just think, If the Fish in question has a fullstack he's less likely to 3bet TT against another Fullstack isn't he? But against you, he could decide that its an easy 3bet because you have such a small amount of money!

      Hope my points help. Give my a shout if you want me to clarify on one of them.
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      Isnt SSS all about flipping?

      Your Ax hands flip vs pp
      Your pp flip vs their AK (if they are good)

      If you don't like flipping play BSS, but theres many flips there too.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      About the coinflips, you have to live with them, this is not where the profit lays, but when you already have money invested a coinflip is better than a fold.


      This.

      I endured 11 coinflips the other day and won only 1 of them. But the principle Rah draws is sound. If I've invested the money by raising already, I need an ultra sound read on my opponent or a double stack to fold as it just doesn't make mathematical sense at NL50.

      If villain is a tight sss player and is raising utg, then you can fold your AK pf since you've invested no money.

      2nd hand: NH - std 3bet against mp raise.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      REMOVE the results as they give a biased verdict which results in you learning the wrong things!

      Hand #1, a 40bb 3bet you and I just shove it here with AKo, this is a standard flip but a +EV one

      Hand #2

      Since you only have 60 hands, you should be playing more ABC since 60 hands tells us barely nothing about postitional PFR/3bet, AF, AFq etc.etc.
      you need atleast 1k or 2k to be accurate

      Therefore Villain has a 70bb stack thus I see him as a mediocre player + he openraises big which is strange as well but can be done with any type of hand. So with JJ, I shove it here, standard fullstop ;)

      - Gerv