[NL2-NL10] nl400: AQ check/raise @ Jxx

    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      $2 SB / $4 BB - 8 handed
      Seat 1: BB ($226)
      Seat 3: UTG3 ($80)
      Seat 4: MP ($274.72)
      Seat 5: MP2 ($294)
      Seat 6: [color=#0000ff]Hero[/color]($74)
      Seat 7: CO ($269.50)
      Seat 9: BU ($339.89)(DEALER)
      Seat 10: SB ($148.10)

      Dealt to Hero: Q:spade: A:heart:

      Preflop:
      SB posts SB, BB posts BB
      [color=#7d7d7d]3 folds[/color], Hero raises to $12, CO calls $12, [color=#7d7d7d]3 folds[/color]

      Flop(Pot: $30):
      9:spade: 6:club: J:diamond:
      Hero checks, CO bets $9, Hero raises to $62, CO calls $53

      Turn(Pot: $154):
      9:spade: 6:club: J:diamond: ,7:spade:


      River(Pot: 154):
      9:spade: 6:club: J:diamond: ,7:spade: ,3:diamond:

      Total Pot: 154


      SB
      http://www.abload.de/img/coouh3.png




      I think its missplayed.
      But please can somebody explain me good spots for a check raise :O
      No feeling for it...
  • 11 replies
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      You are check/raising for extra FE over cbetting?

      I'm not entirely sure why you would check/raise here. If you don't see enough FE in the cbet whats wrong with just playing for pot control with A high or even just check/folding.

      I very occasionally check/shove strong draws or made hands versus aggressive villains as a way of getting extra value/FE (or TPTK maybe High cards on drawy board) but if I were him in this spot I might well be calling any pair to this check/shove as it looks soooo much like you just want me to fold. If you had the J you'd probably just have cbet as we know you don't often have it and can call with some weaker pockets.

      That said, Checkraising isn't my strong point. I don't do it much as I think its percieved very differently by different villains and without a big stack behind its not as scary as we might like it to be.
    • goldflair03
      goldflair03
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2008 Posts: 1,957
      well, after our discusion about c-betting i also startet to stop cbetting that much.
      i think this is the wrong spot as the board hits his callingrange pretty well and he's also folding alot to cbet's.
      so i would probally just cbet in this spot :P

      i like to c/r more against agr. players with a high bet-after-missed-cbet.
      for example on a k43 board with ak or aa, ak with backdoor fd on a 723 board or all kinds of draws.
    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      I search spots where I have NO made hand which are good for a check-raise to balance my check-raises against aggr. players with made hands...

      edit: didnt get the AK on 743 flop exemple :)
    • Gonzo394
      Gonzo394
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2007 Posts: 2,181
      Originally posted by wuusaa
      I search spots where I have NO made hand which are good for a check-raise to balance my check-raises against aggr. players with made hands...
      I think this is a very bad idea.

      I think throwing in check-raises has way more use to balance your check/folds with nothing, so it only makes sense with a made hand, preferably a monster (like if you had JJ).

      This should be your first step. For this however you already have to be ready to check/fold your air-type hands in the first place.

      Then as a result of that *some* people might bet when you check and still fold to your c/r more, and thats where you can begin throwing in c/r as semibluffs, e.g. if you had KQ in the hand you posted.

      Without such knowledge about your opponent, i think check/pushing with ace-high is just wasting money.


      btw: why not just cbet/fold with 1/2 ps here?
    • goldflair03
      goldflair03
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2008 Posts: 1,957
      edit:
      damned it!
      i smoked to much cigaretts instead of writing my post
      -> so gonzo wrote nearly the same faster :s_cry:

      @wussa
      by the way:
      after tighten up my stealingrange and starting to mix my postflopplay i'd got impressive non-sd-winnings, too. :s_cool:
    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      nice, gratz goldflair :)
    • goldflair03
      goldflair03
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2008 Posts: 1,957
      Originally posted by wuusaa
      nice, gratz goldflair :)
      yeah,
      see u soon on the nl600 tables :D

      back to topic:
      i also dont think that we have to balance that much with pure bluffs, just on really good spots where villian has a huge bluffrange ( like my example)
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      what do you think villain's betting and call-checkshove ranges are, and why?

      how does he perceive you're check/overbet shove on this dry board that is a good board to cbet?
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Is bet 24.67% (First action on the Flop after a PR) the Float stat?

      HEM has an easier popup

      I agree with

      You are check/raising for extra FE over cbetting?

      I'm not entirely sure why you would check/raise here. If you don't see enough FE in the cbet whats wrong with just playing for pot control with A high or even just check/folding.

      I very occasionally check/shove strong draws or made hands versus aggressive villains as a way of getting extra value/FE (or TPTK maybe High cards on drawy board) but if I were him in this spot I might well be calling any pair to this check/shove as it looks soooo much like you just want me to fold. If you had the J you'd probably just have cbet as we know you don't often have it and can call with some weaker pockets.

      But I leave this open :)

      - Gerv
    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      okay the most important stat in my opinion (in this spot):
      Bet after missed cbet: -> 55%

      But I dont know if its high enough that he also bluffbets me here.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      His cold call range is not so high ~10%.
      So I think he will often have something when he bets after missed cbet, even though that stat is >50%