This site uses cookies to improve your browsing experience. By continuing to browse the website, you accept such cookies. For more details and to change your settings, see our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy. Close

[NL2-NL10] nl400: AQ check/raise @ Jxx

    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      $2 SB / $4 BB - 8 handed
      Seat 1: BB ($226)
      Seat 3: UTG3 ($80)
      Seat 4: MP ($274.72)
      Seat 5: MP2 ($294)
      Seat 6: [color=#0000ff]Hero[/color]($74)
      Seat 7: CO ($269.50)
      Seat 9: BU ($339.89)(DEALER)
      Seat 10: SB ($148.10)

      Dealt to Hero: Q:spade: A:heart:

      Preflop:
      SB posts SB, BB posts BB
      [color=#7d7d7d]3 folds[/color], Hero raises to $12, CO calls $12, [color=#7d7d7d]3 folds[/color]

      Flop(Pot: $30):
      9:spade: 6:club: J:diamond:
      Hero checks, CO bets $9, Hero raises to $62, CO calls $53

      Turn(Pot: $154):
      9:spade: 6:club: J:diamond: ,7:spade:


      River(Pot: 154):
      9:spade: 6:club: J:diamond: ,7:spade: ,3:diamond:

      Total Pot: 154


      SB
      http://www.abload.de/img/coouh3.png




      I think its missplayed.
      But please can somebody explain me good spots for a check raise :O
      No feeling for it...
  • 11 replies
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      You are check/raising for extra FE over cbetting?

      I'm not entirely sure why you would check/raise here. If you don't see enough FE in the cbet whats wrong with just playing for pot control with A high or even just check/folding.

      I very occasionally check/shove strong draws or made hands versus aggressive villains as a way of getting extra value/FE (or TPTK maybe High cards on drawy board) but if I were him in this spot I might well be calling any pair to this check/shove as it looks soooo much like you just want me to fold. If you had the J you'd probably just have cbet as we know you don't often have it and can call with some weaker pockets.

      That said, Checkraising isn't my strong point. I don't do it much as I think its percieved very differently by different villains and without a big stack behind its not as scary as we might like it to be.
    • goldflair03
      goldflair03
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2008 Posts: 1,957
      well, after our discusion about c-betting i also startet to stop cbetting that much.
      i think this is the wrong spot as the board hits his callingrange pretty well and he's also folding alot to cbet's.
      so i would probally just cbet in this spot :P

      i like to c/r more against agr. players with a high bet-after-missed-cbet.
      for example on a k43 board with ak or aa, ak with backdoor fd on a 723 board or all kinds of draws.
    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      I search spots where I have NO made hand which are good for a check-raise to balance my check-raises against aggr. players with made hands...

      edit: didnt get the AK on 743 flop exemple :)
    • Gonzo394
      Gonzo394
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2007 Posts: 2,181
      Originally posted by wuusaa
      I search spots where I have NO made hand which are good for a check-raise to balance my check-raises against aggr. players with made hands...
      I think this is a very bad idea.

      I think throwing in check-raises has way more use to balance your check/folds with nothing, so it only makes sense with a made hand, preferably a monster (like if you had JJ).

      This should be your first step. For this however you already have to be ready to check/fold your air-type hands in the first place.

      Then as a result of that *some* people might bet when you check and still fold to your c/r more, and thats where you can begin throwing in c/r as semibluffs, e.g. if you had KQ in the hand you posted.

      Without such knowledge about your opponent, i think check/pushing with ace-high is just wasting money.


      btw: why not just cbet/fold with 1/2 ps here?
    • goldflair03
      goldflair03
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2008 Posts: 1,957
      edit:
      damned it!
      i smoked to much cigaretts instead of writing my post
      -> so gonzo wrote nearly the same faster :s_cry:

      @wussa
      by the way:
      after tighten up my stealingrange and starting to mix my postflopplay i'd got impressive non-sd-winnings, too. :s_cool:
    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      nice, gratz goldflair :)
    • goldflair03
      goldflair03
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2008 Posts: 1,957
      Originally posted by wuusaa
      nice, gratz goldflair :)
      yeah,
      see u soon on the nl600 tables :D

      back to topic:
      i also dont think that we have to balance that much with pure bluffs, just on really good spots where villian has a huge bluffrange ( like my example)
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,145
      what do you think villain's betting and call-checkshove ranges are, and why?

      how does he perceive you're check/overbet shove on this dry board that is a good board to cbet?
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Is bet 24.67% (First action on the Flop after a PR) the Float stat?

      HEM has an easier popup

      I agree with

      You are check/raising for extra FE over cbetting?

      I'm not entirely sure why you would check/raise here. If you don't see enough FE in the cbet whats wrong with just playing for pot control with A high or even just check/folding.

      I very occasionally check/shove strong draws or made hands versus aggressive villains as a way of getting extra value/FE (or TPTK maybe High cards on drawy board) but if I were him in this spot I might well be calling any pair to this check/shove as it looks soooo much like you just want me to fold. If you had the J you'd probably just have cbet as we know you don't often have it and can call with some weaker pockets.

      But I leave this open :)

      - Gerv
    • wuusaa
      wuusaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2007 Posts: 455
      okay the most important stat in my opinion (in this spot):
      Bet after missed cbet: -> 55%

      But I dont know if its high enough that he also bluffbets me here.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,029
      His cold call range is not so high ~10%.
      So I think he will often have something when he bets after missed cbet, even though that stat is >50%