How to play when nothing makes sense?

    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Hello, me again. Since i still couldn't fix the elephant i'll post a hand the best i can. I insist on posting it since i really couldn't figure out what the fish does. This is basically a "is this a bluff?" hand. I know, but idea at NL4 but it felt really strange... Goes like this:

      NL 4 SH
      I am BB with 5.36$. I have KQ:club:
      Fold, fold, fold, Fish raises to 0.12$, fold, I call.
      I have no clue how Fish plays.

      Flop is Q:heart: 8:spade: 9:diamond:
      I bet 0.16$, Fish calls.

      Turn is 6:club:
      I bet 0.40$, Fish raises to 1$, I call 0.60$.

      River is T:club:
      I check, Fish bets 3.26$ (All in). I call

      Ok, on the turn it gets trickier because he might have something like AQ or two pair/set. He didn't played like now he's got a straight (T7 wtf?!) and he raised so he might be protecting his hand.

      On the river he made the strangest thing. He wouldn't generally call with a 7 on the flop nor he will raise on the turn unless he's very agressive. The other way around, he wouldn't keep going with a Jack and raise the turn unless he's got JT for the nuts straight on the flop.

      Ok, but he probably woudn't play like this a queen or even two pair and trips because of the abundence of draws and because i played passively on the turn maybe screaming i'm drawing a little.

      So i put him on a bluff. What do you think? I'll say what he had after some opinions :D Thanks.
  • 15 replies
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Everything falls apart after calling the flop.

      You dont get infomation by calling...and know the board is even worse on the turn, there are just a stupid amount of hands beating you. Raising the flop is the correct move i feel.
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by jonnyjm
      Everything falls apart after calling the flop.

      You dont get infomation by calling...and know the board is even worse on the turn, there are just a stupid amount of hands beating you. Raising the flop is the correct move i feel.


      ignore that i missread...and dont know how to delete a post ;s
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      I bet he had like AJ, Q9/8, 66 something like that.

      Be more agro on the flop, bet pot sized ;)
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by jonnyjm
      I bet he had like AJ, Q9/8, 66 something like that.

      Be more agro on the flop, bet pot sized ;)
      oh or 78.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Nope, he didn't had any of what you mentioned. So i understand my play was pretty bad after all ?! :f_biggrin:
    • Styr
      Styr
      Silver
      Joined: 11.03.2009 Posts: 408
      I don't know, Q7o?
      Pocket jacks also crossed my mind.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      On the flop check to the raiser to give him a chance to continuation bet, then you can either check raise or call him and see what he does on the turn.

      As played I fold the turn, I see him having two pair here or a straight often.
      no need to stack off with tpgk

      good luck
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      He isnt calling the flop and raising the turn with worse. Usually its a strong hand.

      If he wanted to bluff it would be on the flop imo
    • AugustusCaesar
      AugustusCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 377
      Since that is NL4 and he could have any two in fact, this is what I would do -> You have KQ, lets see how you stand against any two on that board:

      KQ -> 55,52%
      any two -> 44,48%


      So unless he is a total idiot I fold :-)
    • Vargan
      Vargan
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 565
      Here is my tip:

      This is NL4, dont overthink it. Your opponents will make shitty retarded unexplainable plays at the microlimits.

      The general idea is to be one step ahead in the thinking process, but the second you are two steps ahead you outplay yourself.


      What DO you know about this opponent?
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Hi,

      Just let your hand go when the "Fish" gets aggro. You have only TPGK. There are MANY hands in his range (almost any 2) that have you beat. Wait for a better opportunity to get his money.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Vargan i know absolutely nothing about him, maybe i know he's big stacked so probably is not a complete idiot.

      AugustusCaesar, thanks, didn't cross my mind to equilate this. So i have a pretty clear fold. I guess i was tilting a little and decided to go for hero-plays. (how to you get over lose big win the same and get breakeven or the other way around in a matter of weeks?!? )

      And now the magic moment: HE HAD ACES! Yeah, he's a mad genius pushing that on the river lol.
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      NL 4 SH
      I am BB with 5.36$. I have KQ:club:
      Fold, fold, fold, Fish raises to 0.12$, fold, I call.
      I have no clue how Fish plays.

      Flop is Q:heart: 8:spade: 9:diamond:
      I bet 0.16$, Fish calls.

      Turn is 6:club:
      I bet 0.40$, Fish raises to 1$, I call 0.60$.

      River is T:club:
      I check, Fish bets 3.26$ (All in). I call
      Flop you bet and he call - he knows that you have something.

      Turn you bet he raised you don't 3-bet - he knows that you don't have 10 J so probability of only having Q is high.

      River you check - Maybe trapping or maybe you are afraid he has a straight. So he all-in but in his place i would not raise all-in.Because the probability of a trap was still here.

      This is my only opinion of fish xD
    • tcs35
      tcs35
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      he either had 7T for a straight on the turn or two pair
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Dont call his raise preflop. Playing OOP is sucky and leads to the problems you have with this hand.

      I would bet/fold the turn so after he raises i would fold. I dont really see him raising worse hands. Maybe a bluff and QJ but thats all you beat. As played i fold river because you arent ahead often enough on such a drawy board to make it a profitable call. You could maybe make a small bet on the river and play bet/fold again just for the hope he could call worse Q's but actually check/folding would be best. Thats my opinion anyway.

      Best of luck!

      Regards,

      -Jack