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Best of ... Schiep (check/call turn with initiative)

    • Stefan1000
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649

        Last week's example hands were about the move check behind turn, call river with initiative. This time, we will discuss something similar, check/call turn with initiative.


      Preflop: Hero is BB with A:spade: , 4:diamond:
      MP2 calls, 4 folds, Hero checks.

      Flop: (2.50 SB) A:heart: , 5:club: , 9:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets, MP2 calls.

      Turn: (2.25 BB) 9:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP2 checks.

      River: (2.25 BB) 2:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets, MP2 calls.

      Final Pot: 4.25 BB

        We have A40 and get a freeplay from the big blind, opposed solely by the MP@ limper. We can assume he's reasonable. We flop top pair on a safe, rainbow board; we bet and MP2 calls.

        The 9 is paired on the turn. We shouldn't bet for various reasons:
      • Protection is not necessary on this board, especially with a small pot.

      • We want our opponent to bet and not fold smaller pocket pairs, a 5, or even king high. Even if he doesn't bet, we'll often induce a call on the river from a hand that would have folded to a turn bet. If our opponent does only have king high, then you offer him a chance to improve his hand.

      • It's possible our opponent has only "bluff called", meaning that he called the flop with nothing hoping we would check to him on the turn and that he could then bluff us out with one bet. If we bet ourselves, then this is logically impossible and he will fold.

      • The main thrust: We risk getting raised, which would be a difficult decision for us. MP2 could have a 9 or an A with a better kicker.

        So our plan is to play check/call.

        Our opponent checks behind. We should be the river, however, since we showed weakness on the turn with our check and so he will call us with the most marginal of hands.

        Note: this hand is one of the few exceptions where you should not bet top pair with initiative in a heads-up situation - if in doubt, it's better just to bet!


      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:spade: , K:heart:
      4 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

      Flop: (4.00 SB) J:spade: , 9:heart: , 2:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets, BB calls.

      Turn: (3.00 BB) 9:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

      River: (5.00 BB) 3:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

      Final Pot: 7.00 BB

      [list]In this hand we have AK and make an open raise as the SB. The BB, a LAG, calls. We hit nothing on the flop; still, we could be ahead on this board; our continuation bet is called.

      The turn pairs up the 9. A check is better here, too. The LAG could raise our bet with a flush or straight draw as a semibluff - he might even do that as a pure bluff or as a free showdown raise with a worse ace. In all these cases we would be discarding the better hands, and we want to avoid that. The LAG bets after our check, as we expected, so we call.

      The river card is a blank. The LAG will usually bluff bet with his busted draws, so we go for bluff induction since our hand has a lot of showdown value and play check/call river.


      If you compare this hand to the last, you might conclude that check/call turn, check/call river can be used whenever the move check behind turn, call river would be appropriate. This is incorrect.

      For one, check behind turn, call river has the following advantage: assume we check behind and our opponent checks again to us on the river. Then we have a simple and clear value bet with our marginal hand.

      If we are out of position, this is not so easy. If we check on the turn and our opponent checks behind, we will often have a difficult decision on the river. Should we check/call to induce a bluff or make a thin value bet against worse hands. This, of course, is dependent on the board structure and opponent and cannot be answered a priori. Basically, the weaker our hand the less we should be inclined to play check/call.

      Finally, check/call turn is "less profitable" than check behind turn, from a certain standpoint. The main reason to make this moves is that we're facing the risk of a turn raise and can save money. We can save two big bets. with check behind turn, call river if we assume that our opponent would have raised the turn and that we are going to showdown. But check/call turn, check/call river spares only one BB if he bets on the turn and river.

      Hence, you must have more compelling reasons for this move than for check behind turn! In consequence, it should be used much less often.

      Hand quiz:

      Write what you would do on the river as well, assuming the card is a blank :)


      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:spade: , K:heart:
      3 folds, Button raises Hero 3-Bets, BB folds.

      Flop: (7.00 SB) 7:spade: , 7:heart: , 2:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets, Button calls.

      Turn: (4.5 BB) 6:club: (2 players)
      Hero ?

      Reads on Button: Unknown


      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:spade: , Q:heart:
      4 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

      Flop: (4.00 SB) J:spade: , K:heart: , Q:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets, BB calls.

      Turn: (3.00 BB) 2:spade: (2 players)
      Hero ?

      Reads on BB: LAG


      Preflop: Hero is SB with J:spade: , J:heart:
      4 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

      Flop: (4.00 SB) J:diamond: , Q:heart: , T:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets, BB calls.

      Turn: (3.00 BB) 9:spade: (2 players)
      Hero ?

      Reads on BB: Unknown


      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:spade: , K:heart:
      4 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

      Flop: (4.00 SB) 3:diamond: , K:diamond: , T:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets, BB calls.

      Turn: (3.00 BB) 4:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero ?

      Reads on BB: TAG
  • 4 replies
    • ciRith
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hand 1) Are people who opencall preflop able to bluffcall? ;)
      Anyway I like it :)


      a) uhmmm check/call might be good here to not get raised by an overpair or a weaker ace

      b) bet/call he will raise it often enough with weaker hand (fd, A-high, small pp, J)

      c) bet/call. if he raises we have enough outs to improve (no freecards for fd and weak pairs like Q or T)

      d) nice hands :/ I think check/call might be good here. if he isn't cabable to raise only with a K b/f gets better.

      how would a TAG play this hand with T :heart: 8 :diamond: ? against us? (how with no :diamond: or weaker :diamond:)
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      a) Turn bet/Call. Don´t want the villain oppurtunity to improve cheaply. River check/call
      b) Turn bet/call. River check/call
      c) Turn bet/call. Against raise I have to check/call river
      d) Can´t I bet/fold turn :D . I don´t want to call down to find out that I´m beaten by the flush.
    • InspectorClueso
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 14

      Where do I find last week's example hands thast you mention at the beginning of this thread? I have looked - can't see it.

    • Puschkin81
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi InspectorClueso!

      Sorry, but this is an old thread. The hand you are talking about doesn't exist anymore. But maybe the other instructional sample hands are interesting for you....:

      Good luck at the tables!