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Best of ... Firsttsunami

    • Stefan1000
      Joined: 24.01.2006 Posts: 1,649
      ******* Hand 1 ********

      c/c Turn

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J:diamond: , A:heart: .
      [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], MP calls, [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], SB completes, [color:#CC3333]Hero raises[/color], MP calls, SB calls.

      Flop: (6 SB) T:club: , K:spade: , J:club: [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
      SB checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], MP calls, SB folds.

      Turn: (4 BB) 2:heart: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]

      We raise AJo from the BB after one MP limper and the SB completes. We are way ahead of both opposing hand ranges so we can raise pre-flop for value. We hit middle pair on a very unpleasant board. 3 connected high cards with a possible flush draw.

      We make our standard continuation bet on the flop after the SB checks to us and MP calls.

      We now have a decision on the turn between:

      a) bet/calldown Turn
      b) c/c Turn

      Hero decided to bet but against unknown types we would rather check/call. I will discuss later against which types bet/calldown is appropriate.

      Why is c/c more sensible here than bet/calldown?

      - Middle pair is normally a strong hand heads-up, but the board is very scary and a lot of 2 pairs or straights are possible. With 1:7 on the turn the decision is not easy, since we don't known where we stand and it's hard to say whether our outs are still good. With call flop 3-handed and raise turn we have to discount them more than we would had we already been heads up on the flop.

      - We'll sometimes win 2 BB from aggressive opponents with draws that would have folded to another bet on the river. If we check/call the turn and the river, there is also the chance that he will bet twice with a Q or with a busted flush draw.

      - The call on the flop indicates a marginal draw, a very strong hand like 2 pair+, or a weak made hand. We want to avoid a raise from a monster and get to the SD as cheaply as possible, and don't want to drive out hands like T. The question is whether we lose value with a check. But if we check, then our opponent could a) bet with weak made hands that he would otherwise have folded or b) bet the turn himself with draws. Alternately, we can bet a lot of river cards for value if he plays CB. Our check makes his calling range different on the river than if we had bet the turn and river.

      - The check gives him the option of a freecard, but that's not a problem here. The pot is small and we have 10 potential outs ourselves to a straight or 2 pair.

      Against which type of opponent should we bet instead of playing c/c?

      It's better to bet the turn against a LAG. We will induce a semibluff raise none too seldom from LAG's and if he feeds the pot with 2 BB on the turn most of it will go to us. The decision after a raise isn't as hard as it is against an unknown player. A LAG will also raise with hands like T or J, so we have an easy calldown against him and can make our value bets a lot thinner against LAG's with a high WTS than against unknown players.

      Quiz question:

      We are MP and have a set of 10's, that is, TT. How would we act on the flop and why?

      ******* Hand 2 ********

      Preflop and Flop Play with Midpair

      CO (22/19/2.3/25)

      Preflop: Hero is MP with T:club: , T:heart: .
      [color:#666666]1 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises[/color], [color:#CC3333]CO 3-bets[/color], [color:#666666]3 folds[/color], Hero calls.

      Flop: (7.50 SB) 3:club: , K:spade: , 4:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
      Hero checks, [color:#CC3333]CO bets[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero ?[/color]

      We're in the MP3 position and open raise TT. According to the ORC it's a clear raise and we get a 3bet from the TAG in the CO. The first question whether to call or cap the 3bet.

      To answer this, we must look at CO's range and estimate our equity against it. Roughly and maybe a little too loose, the following is a possible 3bet range:


      According to Pokerstove we have an EQ of 52% against his range. The equity is almost even. We have a slight edge but are not clearly ahead. Still, we must cap pre-flop.

      What if we had an equity against his range of only 48%?

      If we only went by equity, we would play call pre-flop. But if we consider the value of initiative and the resulting playability, we should cap our tens pre-flop.

      The initiative often makes the hand easier to play on the flop. We save money by having more information post-flop and win money from incorrect folds that the opponent will have to make. The clear advantage is that we can cause better hands like JJ and QQ to fold should 2 overcards (A & K) appear on the flop. The value of initiative also has the advantage that we don't have to fold the best hand ourselves. Suppose the opposition has AJ or A9s and the flop is KQ5. After the 3bet on the flop we would be forced to fold.

      We note:

      If the equity disadvantage is very small, it is better to cap medium pockets oop than to call a 3bet.

      Hero decided to call and we hit a middle pair on the flop. The king is the only overcard and we must now make a decision on the flop.

      a) c/c Flop
      b) c/r Flop

      Our decision again depends on the equity. Pokerstove returns an equity of 49.8%. The equity is nearly even. We can't raise for value, but why is c/r flop bet turn the better variant than just check/calling the flop?

      - Our hand is vulnerable to overcards and with the K as a highcard we can get hands like A9s or 6 outers like AJ/AQ to fold on the flop.

      - Worse hands like pocket 77/88 will often pay us all the way to the river. He won't fold his pockets on the flop and when rags show up on the turn and river he'll often call down in heads-up play.

      - C/c risks a freecard on the turn. If we call the flop, some TAG's with A high and 6 outs will make a CB on the turn and will see the turn and river for 1 SB.

      - Judging by the stats, we're playing against a solid TAG and will often get away from the hand more cheaply with c/r flop bet turn. We play bet/fold on the turn and save 1 SB over c/c all the way. The situation on the turn is suited for a bet/fold. Our opposition seems reasonable and after the pre-flop action and our c/r he will guess that we have a K or a pocket pair. He'll rarely raise on the turn for a free SD and we'll fold the better hand.

      Quiz question:

      How would we play the hand against a LAG and why?

      Hand quiz)


      BB = Unknown
      BU = CS

      2.00/4.00 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grab'em by

      Preflop: Hero is SB with J:heart: , 9:spade:
      2 folds, Button calls, Hero?

      Final Pot: 1.50 BB


      BU = CS
      BB = LAG

      2.00/4.00 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grab'em by

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:spade: , 2:diamond:
      3 folds, Button calls, Hero ?.

      Final Pot: 2.00 BB


      BU = CS
      BB = TAG

      2.00/4.00 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grab'em by

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:spade: , 2:diamond:
      3 folds, Button calls, Hero? .

      Final Pot: 2.00 BB


      2.00/4.00 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grab'em by

      Preflop: Hero is BU with A:spade: , J:heart:
      MP2 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO caps, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

      Final Pot: 6.75 BB

      Welche Hände hat CO am wahrscheinlichsten nach einem coldcall 3bet Cap?


      2.00/4.00 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grab'em by

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9:spade: , 9:heart:
      MP2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

      Flop: (7.00 SB) Q:spade: , 7:club: , 6:club: (1 players)
      SB bets. Hero?

      Final Pot: 4.00 BB
  • 3 replies
    • ciRith
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hand 1) You mean on the turn or do you really think of checking a set on the flop with initiative? ;)

      With a set I keep on betting to avoid any freecard and would love a raise to 3-bet. More reasons? ...ok

      Hand 2) Nice I never stoved this situation. Good to know that a cap is correct here :)
      With the 48% its the same as if we 3-bet to isolate the raiser (ist around 45-47% or so)

      How do we play the river if he calls the turn bet? c/c? b/f? c/f?

      a) a rag on the river
      b) an Ace

      Against a LAG I can see a check/raise, bet turn too to induce a bluff raise like in hand 1) and call it down of course. If you don't like this I guess its better to go c/c all the way.

      Btw 25 wts is a very weak TAG who folds way to much. To bluff him out should be quiet easy.


      1) Tough I think calling is fine.

      2) If the LAG 3-bets too much fold.

      3) raise

      4) Without stats I don't even know if the 3-bet is correct.

      I guess he can play AA, KQs this way. If he's an idiot he can play JJ-KK and AK this way.

      5) again no reads... against a callingstation I call it down against TAG/LAG I like a raise here on the flop (against LAG maybe even cap preflop)

      There is one german sentece in it.

      Hmmm why hasn't anybody answered here yet?
    • gergo84
      Joined: 10.03.2007 Posts: 650
      Let me ask a beginner question: what are the 10 outs in the first hand?
      I see: 4 Q + 2 J + 3 A = 9 outs. What is the 10th?
    • ciRith
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      I think me miscounted... btw calculation with 10 outs without discioiunting is a mistake if you ask me ;)

      The A gives everyone ewith a K a straight, the Q could split and the J can still lose to a straight or better trips + fd out there.