Losing to a set - how to avoid?

    • feedfest
      feedfest
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.06.2009 Posts: 119
      I'm wondering if a way to avoid losing to a set is to keep your stack at around half the table maximum. Theoretically, this would mean people have less incentive to call your raise for set value if you have under 20x the raise right?

      Is this idea as silly as it sounds? I realize that it also means you can only win half as much and get less value from your own pocket pairs but if you haven't hit a set in a month and villain always seems to make theirs, maybe it is valid.

      Anyone have any thoughts on how to avoid losing to a set? Or do you just need to accept that villan will stack you sometimes?
  • 22 replies
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      buying in with a half stack wont help you. Theres loads of people that call with pair no matter what your stack is. I play SSS and only buy in with 20 BB's and you still see people call your raises with 66//44//33 worst part is that you hit something too.

      i dont think there is actually a way how to avoid these situations.... they just happen.
      Slowplay maybe? but that sux also :)
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      I'd play SSS against these guys. Then they make more mistakes and get a smaller payout from you. But I'm addicted to it and don't blame you for not playing it.

      Many players will only ever call a raise with pocket pairs, reraise their strong hands, and fold their weak hands. If you face a player like this its fairly simple to bet/fold the flop every time. With a strong enough read u can fold some strong hands against these guys. Set miners make me angry, and I do my very best to make their play unprofitable.
    • feedfest
      feedfest
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.06.2009 Posts: 119
      Originally posted by noclaninator
      I'd play SSS against these guys. Then they make more mistakes and get a smaller payout from you. But I'm addicted to it and don't blame you for not playing it.

      Many players will only ever call a raise with pocket pairs, reraise their strong hands, and fold their weak hands. If you face a player like this its fairly simple to bet/fold the flop every time. With a strong enough read u can fold some strong hands against these guys. Set miners make me angry, and I do my very best to make their play unprofitable.
      I like this. I hadn't thought about watching closely to see if people call or 3 bet preflop. Probably very likely that they are just calling with the low pairs. How foolish of me not ot pick up on that myself. I imagine this pattern is very common in the shallow water where I swim.
    • Ka0s
      Ka0s
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2008 Posts: 722
      You will also never win a big stack if you have just a small one.
      If you are better then your opponents, the more money you have on the table, the better (in the long run). Usually you make up these things after running into some sets and loosing some $$ :D .

      You could also drop down one limit if you wanna risk less money or don't feel like you're good enough yet or for whatever reason.
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      As said before, with a halfstack you save vs sets but loose way more profit when you hit your hand vs a bigstack.

      One way to identify a setminer is that:

      - he's tight
      - low PFR
      - limps or calls oop/EP
      - usually calls flop and raises turn
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      You need to learn to hand read, sets will always get you now and then, dont get commited on one pair is a good way to avoid this, The amount of fish I have stacked who cant let go of tp is unreal
    • excelgeo
      excelgeo
      Silver
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,107
      if your bets are a little more than pot then it is unprofitable for them to call and therefore if you pay them once a while dont worry about it

      and try c/c if you suspect anything
    • tcs35
      tcs35
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      learn to soul read
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      learn to lose.... I'd suggest you don't try to spot sets.. This will make you only paranoid.. People in lower stakes make non-sense bets and every time they do it, you would think oh ok now he's got set. Maybe an exception can be made when the board is paired you have flush and a good villain goes all in. I personally don't try to save bucks by spotting set miners. It's part of the game. Focus on other things...
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Lol i have got a solution xD !

      This is my play :

      Never go all in with only high pair.Because sets is the most difficult hand to read as there is no hint and the opponent is he saw you raising he will just limp until you go all in by yourself.With high pair high kicker i will only expose 50% of my stack.

      E.g

      I have AK

      Raise 5 BB preflop.

      flop K 2 5 rainbow draw.

      Turn I raise 6 7 BB. If the guy follow i will conclude he has a lower K.He will limp with a set as you are doing the raise and it will optimize his gain.

      Then after turn i raise 14 BB

      The guy follow

      The river X card

      he check assuming that i will raise 1 more time or even go all in as he know you have a strong hand.

      But instead of raising i check ^_^!

      Tada he showed me a set arg but i lost only 26 BB instead of loosing 100 BBs. And if you raise at the river he will probably go all in and you will want to follow.

      This work also with two pairs etc :P

      Go all in with sets straight flush etc if you have the nuts xD

      lol just my fishy opinion.

      Edited : Maybe i'm confusing set and trips xD ! i don't really know the difference?

      A set is when there is a pair on board? Or a set is when you have a pocket pair and get a three of a kind on board?

      Anyway for both i play carefully >_<
    • Meiffert
      Meiffert
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 151
      The principle you are talking about is called pot control (you only call or check with a strong hand like top pair so that you don't commit yourself against an opponent who might have a set. Sometimes this is the best play, sometimes though you have to get value from draws when the board is dangerous (flush draws and straight draws possible) and bet. On the river this isn't a concern anyway and you can just check behind to avoid being check-raised by a better hand. Often times you are loosing some value when a worse hand could call you. Always try to think about your hand and the range of hands your opponent might have. If there are a lot of worse hands he might call with, you should probably still bet. If you think that he folds most worse hands but might be check-raising with some monsters, you can check behind.
      There is an article about pot control in the Gold section, so once you get there you might want to read it.

      Originally posted by Cpwpoker
      Edited : Maybe i'm confusing set and trips xD ! i don't really know the difference?

      A set is when there is a pair on board? Or a set is when you have a pocket pair and get a three of a kind on board?

      Anyway for both i play carefully >_<
      A set is when you have a pocket pair and get a three of a kind (like 77 on a bord J74K2).
      Trips is a paired board where you have three of a kind (like AK on KT4K8 board).
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      Losing to a set - how to avoid?

      quitting poker is the only option imo
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Originally posted by Meiffert
      The principle you are talking about is called pot control (you only call or check with a strong hand like top pair so that you don't commit yourself against an opponent who might have a set. Sometimes this is the best play, sometimes though you have to get value from draws when the board is dangerous (flush draws and straight draws possible) and bet. On the river this isn't a concern anyway and you can just check behind to avoid being check-raised by a better hand. Often times you are loosing some value when a worse hand could call you. Always try to think about your hand and the range of hands your opponent might have. If there are a lot of worse hands he might call with, you should probably still bet. If you think that he folds most worse hands but might be check-raising with some monsters, you can check behind.
      There is an article about pot control in the Gold section, so once you get there you might want to read it.

      Originally posted by Cpwpoker
      Edited : Maybe i'm confusing set and trips xD ! i don't really know the difference?

      A set is when there is a pair on board? Or a set is when you have a pocket pair and get a three of a kind on board?

      Anyway for both i play carefully >_<
      A set is when you have a pocket pair and get a three of a kind (like 77 on a bord J74K2).
      Trips is a paired board where you have three of a kind (like AK on KT4K8 board).
      Thanks for giving me the name of this principle will read it as soon as i reach the gold level xD !

      I have think about this after having lost with top pair top kicker a lot of time.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by feedfest

      Anyone have any thoughts on how to avoid losing to a set? Or do you just need to accept that villan will stack you sometimes?
      You do not accept being stacked. Most villains will play flopped sets a certain way:

      c/c flop
      c/r or c/r(min) turn


      Raises on dry boards by villain can indicate set quiet strongly sometimes when pre-flop play is being taken into account. It is usually a leak if you get stacked by a set.
    • Ka0s
      Ka0s
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2008 Posts: 722
      It is usually a leak if you get stacked by a set.
      I don't agree with this and it might give new players wrong impressions.
      A good player can minimize the times being stacked by a set, okay. But it is in inevitable it will happen from time to time?
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Being stacked by a set when you have top pair is a leak.

      being stacked by a set when you have 2 pair or a lower set is not a leak XP

      Because a top pair is not worth all in better fold when you feel that the pot is being uncontrollable and the showdown will be expensive.

      Else

      A set is the hand which is the most difficult to read so it is not a shame to lose to sets but it is a shame to lose constantly to set by going all-in with only top pair...

      This is a leak which is called "Cannot throw away good hand"
    • timukasr
      timukasr
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      Originally posted by redskwerl
      Losing to a set - how to avoid?

      quitting poker is the only option imo
      +1, OP is obviously running bad and new to poker, thus he hasn't understood the dynamics of poker (that's why he is thinking of stupid ideas like lowering ur buy-in in table, dont buy in at all, u'll opponents never get sets then).
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Ah i forgot to tell something.

      if people could avoid sets my game would be no more profitable.

      Even if it is their mistakes which make my game profitable and not really the sets.
    • feedfest
      feedfest
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.06.2009 Posts: 119
      Originally posted by timukasr
      Originally posted by redskwerl
      Losing to a set - how to avoid?

      quitting poker is the only option imo
      +1, OP is obviously running bad and new to poker, thus he hasn't understood the dynamics of poker (that's why he is thinking of stupid ideas like lowering ur buy-in in table, dont buy in at all, u'll opponents never get sets then).
      running bad? yes
      here learning and trying to get better? yes
      thinking you have poor manners and no class based on your post? yes

      I'm hopeful that someday I will be as great at poker as you are but I will learn a lesson from this and try to avoid talking down to new players to make myself feel cool
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