"Learning" on NL5 or 10? Bull____? Thoughts please

    • feedfest
      feedfest
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.06.2009 Posts: 119
      How can you possibly learn to play "good poker" when standard plays are so often nullified by nonsense that you cannot possibly predict
      I just don't see how navigating the bullshoot at the micro limits can teach you to play real poker at the higher limits.

      I'm hoping someone can give me insight as to how getting sucked out on constantly by impossible hands that people wouldn't play if they knew theory will teach you anything?

      Any thoughts? This could go in the rants section but I am just exasperated at the hands that are beating me today.

      Look at this hand to see my point:


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP2:
      $1.52
      MP3:
      $3.52
      CO:
      $2.63
      BU:
      $2.05
      SB:
      $0.95
      BB:
      $14.68
      UTG1:
      $4.16
      UTG2:
      $4.95
      MP1(Hero):
      $4.44


      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9, 9.
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 5 folds, BB calls $0.15.

      Flop: ($0.42) 4, 8, 4 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.48, BB raises to $1.20, Hero raises to $3.76, BB calls $3.04.

      Turn: ($8.9) 7 (2 players)


      River: ($8.9) 2 (2 players)


      Final Pot: $8.9.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, nines and fours(9 9).
      BB shows three of a kind, fours(K 4).

      BB wins with three of a kind, fours(K 4).
  • 9 replies
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      You will always get bad beat as it is poker the hole cards are only strong before the flop.

      After flop turn river everything can change your pocket ace can before the weakest hand as you pocket 2 can become the strongest hand.

      I play about 4k hand a day.

      I get about 20 25 bad beat a day?
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      Originally posted by feedfest
      How can you possibly learn to play "good poker" when standard plays are so often nullified by nonsense that you cannot possibly predict
      I just don't see how navigating the bullshoot at the micro limits can teach you to play real poker at the higher limits.

      I'm hoping someone can give me insight as to how getting sucked out on constantly by impossible hands that people wouldn't play if they knew theory will teach you anything?

      Any thoughts? This could go in the rants section but I am just exasperated at the hands that are beating me today.

      Look at this hand to see my point:
      As a good player, you will lose more often being sucked out, or run into a cooler. The better you play the more this is true I think. Bad players on the other hand lose by betting with the worst hand, playing crap hands, calling with poor odds and making really bad plays etc.

      If it weren't for suckouts like these there probably wouldn't be many fish left playing poker. This is the kind of thing they live for. Next time you'll have A4s and he'll have K4o.

      Because you consistently play better hands than your opponents, you won't be losing many pots that you are behind preflop, and the odds postflop favour your skilled play - you can fold the worst hand, or make your opponent fold, or call or bet with a worse hand. So how else can good players lose? They can be outplayed by better players with position (not the case here) or sucked out on/coolered. I'll take suckouts/coolers over poor lucky play anyday.
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      If you can't beat these players' "nonsense", then don't even think about playing higher limits =)
    • mihahr
      mihahr
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.08.2009 Posts: 1
      As long as you know you played it right, it doesn't matter. Maybe you loose a hand or two against a bad player who got lucky, but on the other hand you will will three or four hands against the same players later in the session. Once I was a fish as well and went bankrupt constantly. Now I've become a winning player, because of learning on NL2 limits. I've only switched to NL5 recently.

      Of course you get more bad beats on lower limits, but you also win more. Just check all of your showdowns and see what did your opponents show only to give you money.
    • deVall3y
      deVall3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2009 Posts: 554
      damn fish, why cant they play better so its easier to beat them? btw thats not really standard how you played your hand. post it in the hand evaluation forums
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      Yeah not sure if I would reraise there.

      If he is standard TAG most of his range beats you (TT+, 88, 44).

      One of the best pieces of advice I ever saw for BSS is that with any reraise you should reconsider the strength of any one pair hands. Here he is representing something strong with check/raise (unless he is maniac) and you only really beat a naked 8.
    • feedfest
      feedfest
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.06.2009 Posts: 119
      Nice replies. I know that I'm not a solid player yet. I have many weaknesses that I am able to recognize but not yet correct. I guess I was saying it sucks to try to learn proper play (which is what i am doing - learning!) and have this kind of crap go on.

      I was thinking about moving up in limits, not because I think I'd win - I would be a fish of course - but because it would be money well spent to lose to players making good plays and maybe learn a few things from them. I've had my best success at .25/.50, worst at .02/.05.

      As for the hand I posted, that shows my biggest leak. I can't get away from overpairs and am constantly beaten by sets. I'm working on that one.
    • timukasr
      timukasr
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      Fold first hand to raise, raise less preflop and move up where they respect your raises.
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Originally posted by feedfest
      Nice replies. I know that I'm not a solid player yet. I have many weaknesses that I am able to recognize but not yet correct. I guess I was saying it sucks to try to learn proper play (which is what i am doing - learning!) and have this kind of crap go on.

      I was thinking about moving up in limits, not because I think I'd win - I would be a fish of course - but because it would be money well spent to lose to players making good plays and maybe learn a few things from them. I've had my best success at .25/.50, worst at .02/.05.

      As for the hand I posted, that shows my biggest leak. I can't get away from overpairs and am constantly beaten by sets. I'm working on that one.
      Don't do this >_<!

      Stick with strict BRM else you will come back on the forum with a post that you lost your BR.

      Maybe the higher stake have better player less fish who know how to fold but if you get a downswing during this moment you will lose all your BR in less than 1hour.

      A top pair top kicker is not enough put all your stack on risk.

      With top pair top kicker i get about only 25-50 BB when playing BSS because you never know when a bad beat will come.

      with a flush draw where i have a Top pair Top kicker if some1 raise i will fold without hesitation.Perhaps i'm playing too safe but this have been successful for me. To only go all in with Sets flush straight xD

      And also when you get a bad beat stop to play for 20 min - 30 min and watch a movie or music video it will help you refresh your mind and play better xD