KK in the big blind

    • mooley
      mooley
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2009 Posts: 6
      Rebuy tournament:
      I am the BB (150) with about 4,000 in tournament chips. The average stack is about 10,000. 3 players call (UTG, MP1, Button). The SB completes her blind.

      I look down at KK and raise to 1,000 (about 6.5 x BB) from the BB. All fold to the SB who calls (she has me covered). She is a weak player who overplays suited cards and shoves all in on the flop with flush draws, open enders and gut shots. She has rebought 3 times in 30 minutes (she is not good enough to advertise).

      The flop is Q(h) 7(d) 5(d). SB bets 3,000, putting me all in.

      What do you do and why?

      Results:

      (a). I snap call and go bust (3 players)

      (b). I tank until they call the clock and then call and go bust (1 player)

      (c). I make a huge laydown (2 players - Daniel Negreanu, because I can read her; and Phil Helmuth, because I love to make big laydowns).
  • 17 replies
    • Meiffert
      Meiffert
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 151
      I call because I'm way ahead of her range.
    • mooley
      mooley
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2009 Posts: 6
      What I did:

      Tank for 5 minutes trying to work out what she has.

      Did she slow play AA or QQ? If so I am drawing almost dead. I think this is unlikely, but not impossible. If so, I shold fold.

      Does she have Qx? She would likely call my raise with AQ, KQ, QJ, QT and possibly Qx suited. In this case, I am definitely calling.

      Is she on a flush draw? This seems quite possible based on my observations of her play and I think she would have called my raise with any two suited cards. If so, I am calling.

      Did she hit a set of 5s or a set of 7s? This is possible and she would probably call or reraise my 1,000 with low pockets. If so, I am folding.

      Does she have two pair? Qx or 57 suited is not out of the question. If so, I may still call to put a bad beat on her.

      ---

      NOTE:

      Her bet was slightly more than my stack. I mention this, saying "I don't have that much", in an attempt to get a read. She impatiently says, "Just put it all in." My instinct tells me this is a very bad sign for me...

      ---


      I CALL...
    • mooley
      mooley
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2009 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by Meiffert
      I call because I'm way ahead of her range.
      Thank u for the reply. That was my reasoning too. It's not easy to put her on a hand, but I think I probably have her beat, so I go with the most likely scenario.

      Any other takers?
    • mooley
      mooley
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2009 Posts: 6
      I turn over my kings and she turns over her aces. Turn bricks. River bricks. I go home and post this thread.
    • DiegoFueng
      DiegoFueng
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 3,667
      I would never ever fold that hand in a rebuy tourney vs a fish..

      I mean is an instant call as simple as that

      By the way.. i dont know how was it preflop but.. ur saying avg was 10k chips, and u raised preflop to 1k... how much were the blinds? im just guessing u shoulded raise a bit more...

      gl
    • mooley
      mooley
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2009 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by DiegoFueng
      I would never ever fold that hand in a rebuy tourney vs a fish..

      I mean is an instant call as simple as that

      By the way.. i dont know how was it preflop but.. ur saying avg was 10k chips, and u raised preflop to 1k... how much were the blinds? im just guessing u shoulded raise a bit more...

      gl

      Thanks. My raise was about 6.5 big blinds (150). Forgot to post that. Not enough?

      In this situation, she had AA, so raise size is irrelevant, she is calling, but obviously I did not know that at the time.
    • sliverika
      sliverika
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2009 Posts: 94
      Insta call based off her play style
    • AquamanBT
      AquamanBT
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 338
      I bust there too.
    • sshnugsi
      sshnugsi
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.07.2009 Posts: 4
      Just had the KK dilemma myself...actually my last 2 hands on PP NL25 were interesting after a dull 30 minutes with little action.

      First hand: I'm UTG1 and have JJ (call BB), all the action happens after the flop: when nothing comes out on the board 4 4 10 BB raises (3/4 pot) and I push all in and BB calls. BB has QQ, I get lucky and hit J turn on turn. Feeling a little sheepish and apologise.

      Next hand: I'm BB and have KK, all the action happens pre-flop, SB raises (4x BB) and I push all in again (2.5x raise). Flop is 9 10 9, turn is Q and rag for river (needed J for the backdoor str8). SB has AA. Boohoo.


      So I figured the poker gods giveth and taketh away :)

      Now I know I was playing too loose for the first hand and got lucky, but would you fold KK on BB to SB?
    • AugustusCaesar
      AugustusCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 377
      Originally posted by sshnugsi
      Just had the KK dilemma myself...actually my last 2 hands on PP NL25 were interesting after a dull 30 minutes with little action.

      First hand: I'm UTG1 and have JJ (call BB), all the action happens after the flop: when nothing comes out on the board 4 4 10 BB raises (3/4 pot) and I push all in and BB calls. BB has QQ, I get lucky and hit J turn on turn. Feeling a little sheepish and apologise.

      Next hand: I'm BB and have KK, all the action happens pre-flop, SB raises (4x BB) and I push all in again (2.5x raise). Flop is 9 10 9, turn is Q and rag for river (needed J for the backdoor str8). SB has AA. Boohoo.


      So I figured the poker gods giveth and taketh away :)

      Now I know I was playing too loose for the first hand and got lucky, but would you fold KK on BB to SB?
      I never fold KK on NL25SH preflop .. Forget about doing that, it would cost you money
    • marvinas
      marvinas
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.04.2009 Posts: 70
      I really don't see a problem here. You're way below average, have some very loose caller, flop is all lower cards - looks like easy call for me. This is a spot where only real decision is how to get all your chips in, and if you will get unlucky - well, that's called a bad beat, and happens in poker. Too bad it didn't work out for you this time.
    • timifish
      timifish
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2008 Posts: 1
      this is a no brainier happy call. He could have AQ, KQ, QJ any FD.
    • stevegold87
      stevegold87
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2009 Posts: 2,640
      I personnaly would never ever fold KK preflop for any reason.;

      Edit : Didn't read the post carefully,

      I would call that anyways, she could easily hits her Q or go after the draw.
      It seems like the best hand to get your chip in, with just a few BB remaining after that.
    • sirilidion
      sirilidion
      Silver
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 1,575
      I should never fold this here. This is a good spot to double up and you need the chips. And besides the Negranue strategy is based that you're deepstacked and thus can small raise with a lot of hand or call in position and then make big big hands like staights and flushes and higher to bust the player and keep the pot small when only having 1 pair.

      This is definatly not the case here you are way below average. If she has aces tough luck she played them as bad as she good only calling with them preflop after a lot lot of limpers. So considering how she played the hand preflop it is very unlikely she has it. call and if she has you beat, that is just unlucky and that is poker but folding everytime this spot appears just because you think the player has AA is just going to lose you chips in the long run.
    • OnkelHotte
      OnkelHotte
      Black
      Joined: 16.01.2005 Posts: 18,443
      They stack/pot-ratio is way too low to even consider a fold here;)
    • IcMean
      IcMean
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2009 Posts: 2,348
      I had the same thing recently but I was the one pushing.

      I had like 1.425 chips left with 44 on the BTN. Blinds are at 100/200 My stack was actually around average, the blinds just went up crazily fast as we had to complete a 190 man tourney in one night.

      CO (who has around 2.5k) raises to 375 (which somehow was allowed, no one knows why). I call.

      Flop brings A4T rainbow. CO bets 500 which is a bit less than half my stack. So I push. Then there was a lot of talking, him trying to get a read on me. He folded and show KK , saying I shouldve slowplayed because he was scared of the A.
    • RNorrie
      RNorrie
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.09.2009 Posts: 10
      I always get screwed on KKs do my strategy of raising 4 times the blind plus everyone that is in and always get called with an ace on the flop and no king