Why SSS doesn't work.

    • Deckard33
      Deckard33
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2009 Posts: 80
      Poker is a game of skill and luck. You can't be lucky using SSS PreFlop as you nearly always have the best of it and when you get your chips in.

      Villan will either fold worse hand, call with slightly worse or much worse hand like low pair or sc's. You should win and will most of the time or he might get lucky which will also happen regularly.

      The only players who can get lucky, varience I think you call it for some reason, are people not playing SSS. If the only luck you can expect in a poker game is even or bad luck you have a losing stragrgy.
  • 48 replies
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      level?
    • arthurhess
      arthurhess
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2009 Posts: 336
      Hitting a set of kings (hole: AKo) on the flop against pocket rockets seems fine to me...


      some all-in EV graphs on SSS would be nice ... at least to show u how SSS merits :D :D
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      My all-in-EV is positive almost every session. And usually in a pretty strong way.

      Of course actual results are very swingy with SSS because it is such a small margin but its just every hand.

      I cba to produce a graph and I don't need to prove it really because if you don't think it will work... it won't.
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      level?
      no, just UK
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Originally posted by Kruppe
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      level?
      no, just UK
      that's so sad :(
    • excelgeo
      excelgeo
      Silver
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,107
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      Originally posted by Kruppe
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      level?
      no, just UK
      that's so sad :(
      assholes :P
    • Deckard33
      Deckard33
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2009 Posts: 80
      Originally posted by Kruppe
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      level?
      no, just UK
      Lol.

      SSS has its uses, learning the game or people who don't want to make much but like clicking their mouse alot with lots of tables and not much thinking. It's also is a great way to increase a sites rake back but I can't imagine why a site would want you to do that.

      "I cba to produce a graph and I don't need to prove it really because if you don't think it will work... it won't."

      It's not magic, if you build it they will come, type of thing but thanks for a polite reply.
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      NL 100 graph

      NL 200


      Alright im running hot, but still add the rakeback to the all in EV winnings and its still a nice profit.

      I was cursing SSS also cause i only felt like rake machine. But when you start to play advanced SSS and starting to exploit your oponents using your tight image it pays off. Using stats helps a lot and folding qq or AK preflop sometimes helps also :)
    • poger8
      poger8
      Silver
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 207
      SSS is game of luck. Let's imagine you play only pairs JJ to AA + AK (that also doesn't guarantee winning, especially AK :D ). In this case you will play approx ~ 1 of 40 times. On 8 person table (for the sake of easy math) it means full round on 5 tables, so you out of 7.5BB. It means you must collect more on your hand. But how often you will only get 1.5-2.5 BB instead? So not only you need to get a hand, but also need luck to have somebody playing and luck to win your hand goind to showdown. And when you start playing more marginal hands, you'd need luck more and more and more...
    • thedahl
      thedahl
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 270
      If you implement other parts such as steals and conti-bets you make some nice cash. Also, people think you have a monster hand all the time so it is extremely easy to steal.
    • Zheelvern
      Zheelvern
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2007 Posts: 704
      Ask Mark Vos about SSS.
    • Deckard33
      Deckard33
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2009 Posts: 80
      Nice graphs mafaz, respect. Are you buying in for 20BB and leaving with25BB?

      If you modify SSS with conti bets and using a tight image (with 20BB do you have time to creat an image?) etc. you are playing partial BSS and, at least for me, I'd only play 4 or max 6 tables when I have to decide when it's profitable to do so.

      I'm playing at a pre PS site atm so I've lost the articles but I still have my notes on SSS. I think people should be made more aware of the limitations of SSS and know what it is good for.
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      yep im buying in with 20BB but only leave when blinds reaches me. If i double up i buy in to full stack and play BSS basicly set mining most of the time. Or when i see a huge fish :)

      Yep you modify SSS. You limp more, complete on sb mostly you make money from other very very tight players. Steal sometimes even from MP3 or MP2 with a decent hand when players behind you are very tight and you know they will respect your raise. You resteal more. Choose spots when to contibet and when not to. Basicly using stats is a key for success.
      Table selection is also important. I actually only play with maximum 1 shorstacker at a table. If there is more i dont even join it. I play against 2 shorties if they both are on my left. If there is 1 shortie and some guy is sitting out i leave the table most of the time also.
      Also using reraise ranges from this article Shortstack-Strategy: Adjusting the reraise-ranges is good. Well basicly you use every trick in the book. All these things increase your BB/100 by little.

      I agree that basic SSS sucks without using stats and other things. But advanced SSS is good. And you can nearly reach an average BB/100 a bigstacker makes or even better while risking less.
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      and yes you have time to create an image. Cause on higher limits 60% of the players you play against are all regulars and they all have stats on you also i think.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by Deckard33
      Poker is a game of skill and luck. You can't be lucky using SSS PreFlop as you nearly always have the best of it and when you get your chips in.
      wat?
    • RahXephon1
      RahXephon1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      Originally posted by Zheelvern
      Ask Mark Vos about SSS.
      Who is he?
      What does he have to say?
      Link?

      And on the original subject, I think Mafaz explained everything very fine. If someone thinks you can just play by a chart and get millions you are obviously wrong, but if you start to incorporate advanced thinking, hand ranges, steals and resteals, player image it becomes fun and profitable.

      You just need to remember that in SSS your margins are kinda small, so your plays need to be tight as every mistake shows in your winrate.

      And few things are funnier than constantly stealing from a tight player with terrible hands and when he finally plays back you are holding queens :f_cool:
    • poger8
      poger8
      Silver
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 207
      Originally posted by RahXephon1

      And few things are funnier than constantly stealing from a tight player with terrible hands and when he finally plays back you are holding queens :f_cool:
      Yesterday it was even funnier when one guy started stealing from me. When I "caught" him having AQ, he had 93 - and still he won with pair of 3s X(

      Talking more about luck - last session I had an interesting streak: 6 showdowns in a row win-lose, but losing on good hands, like previous or AK<AJ, and winning hands like 77 > TT or AT>AK :f_biggrin:
    • Deckard33
      Deckard33
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2009 Posts: 80
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      Originally posted by Deckard33
      Poker is a game of skill and luck. You can't be lucky using SSS PreFlop as you nearly always have the best of it and when you get your chips in.
      wat?
      Read it slowly, if you are still struggling let me know ?(

      I could explain what I mean a little clearer but I think it would be good for you to try and figure this difficult concept out all by yourself.
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      Originally posted by Deckard33
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      Originally posted by Deckard33
      Poker is a game of skill and luck. You can't be lucky using SSS PreFlop as you nearly always have the best of it and when you get your chips in.
      wat?
      Read it slowly, if you are still struggling let me know ?(

      I could explain what I mean a little clearer but I think it would be good for you to try and figure this difficult concept out all by yourself.
      Tbh I don't really get what you are trying to say either.

      And you make it sound like a bad thing having the best of it when the chips go in. That sounds pretty much like the idea to me.