Suggestion:short-stacking in 6-max

  • 22 replies
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Why ruin games even more?
    • cryoburn
      cryoburn
      Silver
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 322
      yeah it would be interesting.
      been thinking of asking just that because i've read some stuff and saw some deucescracked videos where they talk about it and got curious.
      anyone already tried NL SH SSS?
    • tuomasta
      tuomasta
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 234
      In german site they have something in forum...

      I think i have seen something there, but i dont uderstand that.

      I have 500 hands stat of one SSS 6-max player who plays at Party Poker. And i think he is pokerstrategist...

      NL25 & NL50

      VPIP 15
      PRF 15
      3bet 8.7

      BB/100 13.06

      Almost every time he raises he is ready to go broke.

      I tried that with bad success, but i made a note that people are callin AllIns with Any2....

      Almost every shortstack in 6-max tables are bad.... can we exploit that...
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      I ran into one using strategy on SH. He said he played 18/12 and v. aggressive. It might be profitable, but only because of so many non-optimal players (donkeys and fish) on these tables.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hey Anssi,

      There has been several attempts at making an encompassing short stack strategy for SH tables in almost all language forums. The ones which did the most work on the topic were the Spanish, Italians and Germans.

      The Germans later on abandoned the prospect of making a strategy that could be written down in strategy article due to the swings being too large - but I think the Italians and Spanish continued develop the strategies on the forum.

      I'd have to check if I can find the links to the different language threads, but considering that the Gerrmans put official development of SSS SH strategy on hold I don't think we will have much official content about it in the near future.

      I'll check with our education department though.

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • RahXephon1
      RahXephon1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      Ansi do you want to play it, or do you just want to know how they play so you can adapt to them?
    • dadude77
      dadude77
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.10.2008 Posts: 1,516
      I have played probably about 70-80k hands from NL25 up to NL200, and it is fairly crazy :D , but can be quite profitable, in the french community there are quite a few of them, and alot of threads and blogs about people who play this regularly at high stakes games, user written articles and videos as well.
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      I have search but could not found arnest's chart can you send it to me xD ?

      But i got the poland/spanish/or dunno chart xD
    • dadude77
      dadude77
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.10.2008 Posts: 1,516
      who is arnest? you sure thats his name?
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Why ruin games even more?
      whats the problem? play on deepstacked tables.... and leave the fish for shortstacks :)
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      to the subject.... i hate shorstackers myself althought i play it myself....

      Lately they are so dumb.... they are killing tables and so on. No etiquete at all.... Like they join the table nomatter if theres other 2 shorstackers on it which is kinda against SSS strategy. Its ok if theres a huge fish but if not.... why kill the table? People start leaving and so on. Also after doubling up they keep sitting out. which is killing the tables even more. Why do you do that? Do you like when its done to you?

      I used to leave tables straight away if i fold UTG so another person could take a place keeping the table alive. Thought i dont do that anymore cause kinda on fulltilt you dont get a hand history stored if you leave.

      But still why these shorstackers are killing the tables by joining tables with 2 shorstackers or even 3? are you freaking blind? Or you are so lazy to table select? And get the fuck off the table after you double up. Dont sit out till you are kicked off the table....

      SSS'ers are already bad for fullring i cant imagine what they would do to 6-handed games if they flood it like fullring....
    • Meiffert
      Meiffert
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 151
      Originally posted by mafaz
      Or you are so lazy to table select? And get the fuck off the table after you double up. Dont sit out till you are kicked off the table....
      Well, I don't really think that I am lazy to table select. But there is pretty much nothing to select from.
      I take all tables with plrs/flop 10 or more, then look at waiting lists and if there are many people already, I let the table go (since there are many shortstacks/regulars usually on these high plrs/flop table waiting lists), if there are 2 or less people on the list, I join it.
      (I join all NL100 FR tables which are at least this 'good'.)

      And that's Pokerstars. I can't imagine how you can table select on other networks/sites since for example on OnGame there are like 4 tables of NL100 FR running... how do you table select out of 4 tables if you want to multitable 20 games? :P
      When I played on FTP, I tried to table select a bit better (avoid many shortstackers), since they only allow you to play 8 tables and there is a reasonable number of tables, it can be done. :)

      I don't say that I never leave a table if it is bad. If I see, that 1 player is sitting out, there are 3 other shortstackers and the rest on the table are regulars, I sometimes leave.

      About the other thing: Sometimes I timeout on a table and then I sit there until it kicks me after 3 rounds of missed blinds. Sorry about it, but I don't know about it, because the table is hidden behind many others (I sort of stack the tables). But this happens rarely. ;)


      Also I don't leave table until the hand where I was UTG is finished because otherwise you don't get VPPs for the hand.
      But I don't think that it's an issue since the next player can sit after I leave and post a blind on CO 2 hands later, which is no worse than waiting for bb, because you get dealt 6 hands for 1 paid bb, while 'normaly' you get 9 hands for 1.5 bb. On 10handed tables (iPoker, OnGame) it's even better to post in CO compared to waiting for bb.
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Arnfast's Chart xD

      lol sorry i'm not good with name :P
    • dadude77
      dadude77
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.10.2008 Posts: 1,516
      its in his blog... thats funny cuz hes the one that told me about PS and went to my school in belgium!
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      Ok thanks will search it :P

      But won't really play it just want to have an idea about starting hands that works this can help in developing my own style xD
    • whateverdude
      whateverdude
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.02.2009 Posts: 232
      Hey I looked and couldnt find that blog, could somebody post a link to that Arnfast guy's chart, I am really curious.
    • dadude77
      dadude77
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.10.2008 Posts: 1,516
      its in the french section... but its not reccomended under NL200-400 and theres no starting open raising chart, have to come up with one on your own!
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      Originally posted by SoyCD
      I'd have to check if I can find the links to the different language threads, but considering that the Gerrmans put official development of SSS SH strategy on hold I don't think we will have much official content about it in the near future.
      My German is absolutely dreadful, I only took it for two years in high school in America, but there's so much poker terminology in the posts that I could follow the discussion.

      I believe the conclusion was that the strategies relied very heavily on HUD stats and also table selection. You need to be sure your table was at least half full of terrible players.

      I think it also didn't scale well. You could play profitably up to $50 NL, but after that the profits started drying up since the required table conditions weren't present very often. (Or to put it another way too many of the players know how to beat short stackers.)

      Even after trying it I don't really understand the mentality of doing short stacking. It's excellent for clearing bonuses. However for building bankrolls playing Turbo SNGs seems faster with less variance. For raw profit you really can't beat full stack 6-max or multi-tabling full ring. The nice thing about full ring is you can still play many tables for bonus clearing and rakeback, but you absolute dollar figures are much better if you are playing $100 NL fullstack vs short.

      Also, this totally ignores the cash cow that is PLO. :s_biggrin:
    • DarkZonk
      DarkZonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2008 Posts: 19,198
      Hi,

      there are several ppl in german community who are able to design a SSS SH strategy, but they refuse to do it, because they would lose their edge by releasing this strategy. There is a huge difference between SSS and BSS - a bad BSS player doenst ruin the table... a bad SSS player will mostly play BE with RB, but u cant win much money from him, just beacuse he is very tight. So too many sss-players ruin the tables.
      By releasing a SSSSH strategy SH tavles would get crowded by those be-players who dont know the math behind sss-sh, they are just following a chart.
      So the tables will get destroyed, more and more 50bb-tables will appear and sss will die. Additionally those good players would give up their edge.

      Thats the reason why nobody will release a strategy for SSS SH - it would cost them thousands and tenthousands of dollars
    • 1
    • 2