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No Guts No Glory????

    • txfoyochipz
      Joined: 13.07.2009 Posts: 32
      Hi fellow poker players,

      After watching some of the coaches SNG video's, there was 1 thing that really got me thinking. Especially videos by Unam and Jonathan Little.

      I am talking about situations in the late stages of SNG's where HERO has a decent stack and pushes quite recklessly into other big stacks with hands like A5, A8, K10. I often fold in these situations because I am scared of getting called by a dominating hand, or because I don't want to risk my decent stack.

      1 is when HERO has 1600 chips (more than starting stack) and blinds are 100/200. I have seen coaches pushing A5 and K10 from middle position. I would fold these hands simply because I can only win 300 chips and when I get called I am usually drawing pretty thin.

      2 is when HERO has a stack of appr. 6000 and the same type of hands, A7, KJ and so on are pushed into other big stacks, who can cripple your stack. I also usually fold these marginal situations because I don't want to risk getting called and finishing on the bubble. I am essentially trying to outlast the shortstacks and avoiding confrontations with the big stacks.

      I see the coaches often pushing there deep stack into other deep stacks when there are still short stacks on the table. The argument used is that the big stack needs to have a really strong hand to call and therefore the fold equitty is huge. I understand this, however many opponents on 10$ and even 20$ will often call with hands like A10 and sometimes even A7 or KJ (clear -$EV calls) on the bubble. Probably because they don't want to get bullied or something.

      I hope I am making my point clear. ?( I would like to hear from u guys if I should be a bit looser against other big stacks and not be so
      If this post isn't making much sense to u all, I could look up some hands and post them to show what I mean. :s_cool:

      Apologies for long post and weird thought processes, it's 4AM and Im writing this....hmmm. :s_confused: Any feedback would be much appreciated.

      Kind regards TXFOYO
  • 4 replies
    • EricLam
      Joined: 14.08.2008 Posts: 14
      I do mainly the same as you. I prefer to reduce my stack and then push in good moments when ill be called by worse hands and double up, than risking my big stack with A7 or KJ with a more than decent stack.

      Waiting for the opinion of the coaches, its an interesting question.
    • Strodyn
      Joined: 15.12.2008 Posts: 14
      If I recall from one of the coaching sessions it is to do with getting a first or second place, as that is where the most money is, rather than just limping your way to lower places and a much smaller prize.

      Eg..... If you are in two SnG's, and you have a coin flip allin on both, then it is better to on average to go broke in one and to win the other, as there is more money in one 1st/2nd place than there is in two 3rd places..... something like this anyway. I am sure it is more value with fold equity etc and being able to steal with a larger stack later.

      However I too cannot play like that...just seems totally wrong yet I do understand the reasoning behind it, something I need to work on.
    • NickParkes
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      I think no guts, no glory is the right title... this is an element of my game that I have been working on a lot... and now I push hands I never dreamed of pushing previously... the key is to know why... and the main reason is that the players to act will call tight... that's why it is good to push into larger stacks, cos they don't need to risk anything on a less than decent hand... and often the players who haven't paid the blinds should be calling very tight anyway, so they just can't call often enough... sometimes you do get the loose calls... but not always common tho :f_grin: the key for me really is the fact that when I do get called by AT or AK I mostly have a 40/60 situation with 2 live cards... the value in then doubling up can be awesome... and often off a hand that can tilt players :f_biggrin: You can't win by folding :f_cool: anyway the key is to really look for the spots, and analyse your decisions to understand how they work... SNG WIZ is a great tool for this... hope this helps, has probably been the best thing for my game :f_love: :f_love: :f_love:
    • Atoks
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,397
      Nick makes a good point in his post but the only point u really should be looking at is this: THE COACHES DO IT! They'r wining players on far higher limits than u are just now. If u really want to understand why they do it u should prolly get a book about SnG tactics. Those concepts are very nicely explained in poker literature and they also have all of the math backing them up.