[NL2-NL10] NL25 - OESD on Flop

    • Spidey1978
      Spidey1978
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2007 Posts: 256
      Had this for my first hand this session.

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $37.42
      Hero:
      $5.00
      MP3:
      $14.13

      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.69 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J:diamond: , T:club:
      4 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 2 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($0.75) 9:spade: , 6:spade: , Q:diamond: (3 players)
      SB bets $0.36, Hero ?

      Should I call here?
      Pot odds are 3:1 but presumably I have better implied pot odds with 2 opponents on the flop (still trying to get a handle on implied odds).
  • 4 replies
    • Jehryn
      Jehryn
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 678
      The odds for calling are indeed not to bad and if the other villain also calls it's a very good situation. However, the presence of the Flush Draw negates that. First of all it means you have only 6 clean outs instead of 8 which changes the odds by alot. So instead of 1/4 you now need somewhere like 1/6 to make a good call. Which you don't get. Secondly there is no guarantee the other villain will not reraise. If the first one is semibluffing with a FD and the second one wants to push all the FD's out with his OP/set he will reraise and you will lose money.

      So all in all a good fold ;)
    • Spidey1978
      Spidey1978
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2007 Posts: 256
      Originally posted by Jehryn
      ... the presence of the Flush Draw negates that. First of all it means you have only 6 clean outs instead of 8 ...
      Cool - extra question - if it had been a rainbow flop would I have had all 8 outs? Still not 100% with odds...
    • Jehryn
      Jehryn
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 678
      The outs you have need to be divided into clean and unclean outs. If you need a K to make a straight (AQ on a TJ5 board) you have a total of 4 outs. However if you have a T :heart: J :heart: 5 :diamond: board then the K :heart: would also give someone with a Flush Draw a flush and beat you. Therefore the 1 out you receive from the K :heart: is unclean and should be discounted.

      Now for your question, if there was a rainbow flop then you retain all of your 8 outs.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Hey Spidey1978,

      with FD out there and with only 35 hands on the villain I would fold turn for sure as you don't get the odds nor you can estimate implied odds well.

      If the board was rainbow then you would have 8 clean outs indeed, but you would still have to have some implied odds in order to make profitable call on the turn, so it's marginal as you don't know how strong villain's hand is or how aggressive he is. Therefore I would still fold OESD.

      Regards,
      burek2000