How to improve/learn MTT's?

    • deVall3y
      deVall3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2009 Posts: 554
      Im an SnG player but I like playing MTT's while doing my SnG session. Ive lost about $150 so far over 30 MTT's. Im rolled for it so its ok, but Im not sure if I play so good.
      I have mostly problem with preflop strategy, very deep postflop pots ("am I overplaying my top pair? :f_confused: "), multiway pots and such.
      I feel pretty good with midgame steals\resteals, and endgame shoves.
      I wonder how I could improve further in my weak spots. I guess I should start posting more hands here which I'm planning to do, but what else? Ive watched all videos of the site on MTT's.
      by the way, I realize 30 is a super small sample size, but what amount of tournies can I expect to play without making major cashing, or at least reach a final table?
      and I also feel its very tough getting in a decent sample size because pokerstars which I play on only runs like 1-2 MTT"s in an hour for the stakes I can play.
      so how do MTT grinders do it? they play a huge veriaty of limits I would guess, but this isnt an option for me ... I also have money on fulltilt but the tournaments there suck plus its confusing for me to play on two sites

      thanks a lot
  • 8 replies
    • marvinas
      marvinas
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.04.2009 Posts: 70
      I don't consider myself a MTT grinder, I play at most 1 MTT a day. The thing to look for for me is risk / reward, so I only play guaranteed pot rebuy MTTs with big field. This way, if I have an edge over others, they will pay more to play than me and its very EV+.

      MTT first of all is about survival, and it takes much longer than any sng. Just keep track of average stack size and try not to fall behind a lot. There's no formula to calculate how many MTTs to play to reach final table, once I finished second in 2 in a row (field of about 800), and then ran dry for 2 months. Usually there are 3 - 5 key hands, when you double up or lose, and if you get them right, you will go far. Also remembet not to rush things too much, while you are folding, people are getting kicked out at other tables :)

      Hope this helps
    • kaytor
      kaytor
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 5,444
      Originally posted by marvinas
      I don't consider myself a MTT grinder, I play at most 1 MTT a day. The thing to look for for me is risk / reward, so I only play guaranteed pot rebuy MTTs with big field. This way, if I have an edge over others, they will pay more to play than me and its very EV+.

      MTT first of all is about survival, and it takes much longer than any sng. Just keep track of average stack size and try not to fall behind a lot. There's no formula to calculate how many MTTs to play to reach final table, once I finished second in 2 in a row (field of about 800), and then ran dry for 2 months. Usually there are 3 - 5 key hands, when you double up or lose, and if you get them right, you will go far. Also remembet not to rush things too much, while you are folding, people are getting kicked out at other tables :)

      Hope this helps
      This is clearly the wrong mindset to playing mtts : "mtt first of all is about survival" and "remember not to rush things too much, while you are folding people are getting kicked out at others tables"

      When you play a mtt you goal should be to win it, not to survive the longest.Because the money is at the top 3 places, It's better to win 1 mtt and loose a 100, than mincash in all of them.
      Winning is achieved by collecting all the chips in play, so you need to start accumulating these chips right from the beggining, having a big stack definitly increase your chances of winning, it opens a lot more +EV spots and allows you to take you edge to his maximum.
      I wouldn't pass any +cEV spot, however small or marginal it is. Hell if I was offered an exact coinflip in my first hand of the tourney for all my stack I would be happy to take it.

      The online mtt grinders community commonly agrees on this subject (taking small edge early instead of passing them up to find a better spot).

      as for the OP, I think working on your postflop game can only do you good, not only for the early stages, but even for the mid and late stages, being able the raise small (I raise barely more than a minraise, for psychological reasons it gives you a bit more fold equity than an true minraise) and not being afraid to see a flop is a HUGE advantage, as most players in mtts are awefull postflop.
      I find that 6-max is the best way to learn postflop play. Try to always ask yourself what your trying to accomplish with your action, what's the range of your opponent and what his perception of your range.

      Sorry for any english mistake, it's not my first language.
    • MisterHomes
      MisterHomes
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2008 Posts: 128
      Yes, you should always play MTTs to win. HOWEVER, what my friend here means about survival is that as tournaments progress, it becomes incredibly vital to steal and resteal to keep your stack healthy (several professionals agree that they can play comfortably with > 35 BB). If you are not good at stealing dead money preflop (or dead money PERIOD), you are doomed to fail in MTTs. You should watch the videos that the coaches here put up -- I have high respect for almost all of them.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      first of all if u want to grind MTTs at small gap of buyins i'd sugges getting used to the fulltilt structure too and play on both sites.

      when i grinded mtts i only played on fulltilt and i could hardly get 6 tourneys open, even though i opened all the tourneys at my limit for the entire evening
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by marvinas
      I don't consider myself a MTT grinder, I play at most 1 MTT a day. The thing to look for for me is risk / reward, so I only play guaranteed pot rebuy MTTs with big field. This way, if I have an edge over others, they will pay more to play than me and its very EV+.

      MTT first of all is about survival, and it takes much longer than any sng. Just keep track of average stack size and try not to fall behind a lot. There's no formula to calculate how many MTTs to play to reach final table, once I finished second in 2 in a row (field of about 800), and then ran dry for 2 months. Usually there are 3 - 5 key hands, when you double up or lose, and if you get them right, you will go far. Also remembet not to rush things too much, while you are folding, people are getting kicked out at other tables :)

      Hope this helps
      and yea try to ignore the average stack as it is more than one hundred percent irrelevant to how ur gonna play
    • FWKanobi
      FWKanobi
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2009 Posts: 740
      Originally posted by ihufa
      first of all if u want to grind MTTs at small gap of buyins i'd sugges getting used to the fulltilt structure too and play on both sites.

      when i grinded mtts i only played on fulltilt and i could hardly get 6 tourneys open, even though i opened all the tourneys at my limit for the entire evening
      what was your success in grinding MTT ? ;-)
    • FrozenRope
      FrozenRope
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2007 Posts: 283
      I find that playing SnG's has helped my MTT game in ways I would never imagine. I do believe that survival is important in MTT's be observant and try to pick up the small pots to protect your stack. When you have the goods jam jam jam, surprising how often people stack off with TPWK. Watch videos as often as possible and practice with ICM Trainer for late stages.
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Originally posted by kaytor
      I wouldn't pass any +cEV spot, however small or marginal it is. Hell if I was offered an exact coinflip in my first hand of the tourney for all my stack I would be happy to take it.

      This sounds majorly spewy for low buy-in MTT's. Your have a big edge even in the early game, I don't see why you have to lose in half your mtt's before you even had a chance to use it.