[NL20-NL50] QQ - OP on drawy paired board

    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      BB:
      $50.21
      UTG1:
      $31.86
      Hero:
      $74.94
      CO:
      $50.94

      0.25/0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q:diamond: , Q:club:
      UTG folds, UTG1 calls $0.50, UTG2 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, 2 folds, CO calls $2.50, 2 folds, BB calls $2.00, UTG1 folds.

      Flop: ($8.25) J:club: , T:club: , J:diamond: (3 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $5.50, CO raises to $13.00, BB folds, Hero raises to $25.00, CO raises to $48.44 (All-In), Hero calls $23.44.

      Turn: ($105.13) 9:heart:
      River: ($105.13) 7:heart: (1 players)


      Final Pot: $105.13
  • 16 replies
    • maya1984
      maya1984
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      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      I don't hate a b/f here but I guess going broke is fine too if you don't mind the variance. You also better off shipping it right away after he re raised since you are not planning on 3bet/folding this...
    • nurmalna
      nurmalna
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2009 Posts: 61
      IMO after he reraise you I would go All in, He is agressive and you get some fold equity as well. I dont see the point of min reraise there. =)
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      Originally posted by nurmalna
      IMO after he reraise you I would go All in, He is agressive and you get some fold equity as well. I dont see the point of min reraise there. =)
      So he can shove his draw or Tx. If I shove only better will call?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
      3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
      3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead
      Call down on blank turn and river? or c/f turn/river?

      If I put him on a draw, I cant call down right?

      When someone aggro raises a paired+drawy board ip what does it usually mean? Doesnt it mean a draw?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
      3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead
      Call down on blank turn and river? or c/f turn/river?

      If I put him on a draw, I cant call down right?

      When someone aggro raises a paired+drawy board ip what does it usually mean? Doesnt it mean a draw?
      my line is c/c turn adn then c/f river, since I don´t expect players to bluff there
      you just can´t put him on a draw, he has there sometimes trips, sometimes is raising with 88, put I wouldn´t suggest calling him down on paired boards, so if you think you´re ahead then c/rai on the turn seems better option
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
      3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead
      Call down on blank turn and river? or c/f turn/river?

      If I put him on a draw, I cant call down right?

      When someone aggro raises a paired+drawy board ip what does it usually mean? Doesnt it mean a draw?
      ... so if you think you´re ahead then c/rai on the turn seems better option
      If I wait to c/r turn he could hit his FD or SD no?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
      3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead
      Call down on blank turn and river? or c/f turn/river?

      If I put him on a draw, I cant call down right?

      When someone aggro raises a paired+drawy board ip what does it usually mean? Doesnt it mean a draw?
      ... so if you think you´re ahead then c/rai on the turn seems better option
      If I wait to c/r turn he could hit his FD or SD no?
      yes, but if you you put him on FD or SD then you can also 3-bet pf.
      My reasons to waiting on the turn is that he shouldn´t raise very often on that board with FD or SD and if he decides to play them aggressively I don´t want him chance to make correct play against my range, since if you 3-bet most of the times only better hands would shove
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      I'm confused, and still don't know what to do in this hand.

      - If I b/c flop he can suckout. What do I do on the turn if it helps his possible FD or SD? b/c?
      - If I 3bet flop I protect vs draws and basically only Jx(unprobable) beats me.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      When he raises the flop he'll have Jx/KQ/clubs/combos/bluffs. The fact that Jx is hard to have is somewhat balanced by the fact that players aren't so likely to play draws aggressively on a paired board into 2 players either, tho i don't know if that thought even occurs to a 22/7/4.5.

      So when he raises and you 3bet you're saying you think he has enough semibluffs in his range to warrant you inducing a shove, even tho you'll take a beating when he shows Jx. The way i see it you might even be flipping with some of those semibluffs but you're completely toast against Jx, so unless you have a good reason to think that this guy is nuts i wouldn't bother. He might be given his postflop stats tho.

      When he raises and you call you're actually saying you think he has draws/bluffs often enough for you to look for a safe turn, and you should know already what you expect from this player on the turn.
      If the turn is ugly, barring a read that he is just a mindless aggro monkey don't bother and dump it if he bets.
      On a blank turn, how wide will his betting range on a blank be? Are there still enough bluffs he is betting to call him down, or do you expect him to take the free card with draws and only bet Jx, in which case it's a c/f even on a blank? Most people will usually check a draw in that spot, but this guy seems unusually aggressive and might bet again a draw on the turn, committing himself in the process and making the c/r line viable for you.


      Long story short, if you don't get the feeling that this guy might raise/shove a draw, bet/call and c/f ugly turns / c/shove blank turns would be my plan. If you do, your line is fine.


      Hope it helps.
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.
    • maya1984
      maya1984
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      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.
      8T? :)
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      Originally posted by maya1984
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.
      8T? :)
      QJo
    • maya1984
      maya1984
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      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,741
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by maya1984
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.
      8T? :)
      QJo
      so he was lucky on the flop but he had the best hand when the money got it...
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      Originally posted by maya1984
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by maya1984
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.
      8T? :)
      QJo
      so he was lucky on the flop but he had the best hand when the money got it...
      Yea but the probability hes on a draw is way higher imo. If I play passive I will prob let him suckout. On the other hand, he did raise the flop so I guess I will be more careful when they do this next time.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by maya1984
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Originally posted by maya1984
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.
      8T? :)
      QJo
      so he was lucky on the flop but he had the best hand when the money got it...
      Yea but the probability hes on a draw is way higher imo. If I play passive I will prob let him suckout. On the other hand, he did raise the flop so I guess I will be more careful when they do this next time.
      yeah I like passive approach more