OESD & Flushdraws

    • HornetWing
      HornetWing
      Basic
      Joined: 17.09.2009 Posts: 5
      Hi, I have been studying the Basic No Limit Hold'Em SSS Strategy. You say that when no one has raised before you and you have one of the hands in the table you raise. If someone raises and you have one of the stronger hands from the second table then you push all-in. This all makes sense however what confuses me is that you say "You bet, raise and try to go all-in with every OESD or Flushdraw but only if you raised before the flop. Well the SSS doesnt involve any calling you either raise or push all-in. Or did I miss something?
  • 11 replies
    • AlexanderD22
      AlexanderD22
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2009 Posts: 377
      Originally posted by HornetWing
      Hi, I have been studying the Basic No Limit Hold'Em SSS Strategy. You say that when no one has raised before you and you have one of the hands in the table you raise. If someone raises and you have one of the stronger hands from the second table then you push all-in. This all makes sense however what confuses me is that you say "You bet, raise and try to go all-in with every OESD or Flushdraw but only if you raised before the flop. Well the SSS doesnt involve any calling you either raise or push all-in. Or did I miss something?
      It doesn't happen too often but in theory you could be in SB with KQo, you raise as per chart and let's say someone calls. Flop is J7T raibnow, you now have OESD but no pair, you now bet.
      I hope you haven't confused the allin aspect as you push on turn regardless of flop.

      Hope this helps.
    • HornetWing
      HornetWing
      Basic
      Joined: 17.09.2009 Posts: 5
      Originally posted by AlexanderD22

      It doesn't happen too often but in theory you could be in SB with KQo, you raise as per chart and let's say someone calls. Flop is J7T raibnow, you now have OESD but no pair, you now bet.
      I hope you haven't confused the allin aspect as you push on turn regardless of flop.

      Hope this helps.
      Makes sense, but what i'm after is when do I not play an OESD or a Flushdraw. Before the flop according to SSS (simplified to) only 3 senarios (I know there are some in the middle aswell):
      1. You make a hand in the table and no one has raised and so you raise
      2. Another player raises and you have a hand from the second table and so you push all-in
      3. You don't make any hand and fold

      My point is when you get to the flop you have either raised and therefore you can play an OESD or Flushdraw OR you are allin in which case you just sit tight and hope for the best. SSS doesnt mention anything about calling!
    • AlexanderD22
      AlexanderD22
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2009 Posts: 377
      Originally posted by HornetWing
      Originally posted by AlexanderD22

      It doesn't happen too often but in theory you could be in SB with KQo, you raise as per chart and let's say someone calls. Flop is J7T raibnow, you now have OESD but no pair, you now bet.
      I hope you haven't confused the allin aspect as you push on turn regardless of flop.

      Hope this helps.
      Makes sense, but what i'm after is when do I not play an OESD or a Flushdraw. Before the flop according to SSS (simplified to) only 3 senarios (I know there are some in the middle aswell):
      1. You make a hand in the table and no one has raised and so you raise
      2. Another player raises and you have a hand from the second table and so you push all-in
      3. You don't make any hand and fold

      My point is when you get to the flop you have either raised and therefore you can play an OESD or Flushdraw OR you are allin in which case you just sit tight and hope for the best. SSS doesnt mention anything about calling!
      EDIT: Re-read your post and see what you are after more. Well let's say it's your first hand, you are on the button with the same KQo as my other example, with 1 limper before you. You raise to .50 as per chart. SB & BB fold but he calls. Flop is same as I suggested, J-7-T rainbow, let's say as he is first to act he bets .40 into the 1.15 pot. Were you to have been first to act you would have bet roughly .70 according to OESD rules. Now I may be WRONG here but I think you could call the .40 and leave it at that. Correct me if I am wrong someone, might be a leak of my own lol.

      Oh I see, well for the most part when you start out the decisions are made for you. Depending on position, number of players etc., you cbet or have a made hand and bet anyway or you play check/fold. Even if you aren't new to poker, check out Gerv's coaching on Sunday if you have received your capital by then. I've been playing for a few years now but he explains SSS and why he makes the moves he does and such.

      Also read articles, watch videos and review your hands to see if you could play them better. SSS will seem somewhat tedious but the site has proven it to be a winning strategy in the long term. Good luck.
    • HornetWing
      HornetWing
      Basic
      Joined: 17.09.2009 Posts: 5
      Yep, the edit is what I was after. I just wanted to make sure I did no miss anything before the test. I just did it, turned out to be easier than I thought. So there isn't a scenario where you would call before the flop. Right?
    • AlexanderD22
      AlexanderD22
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2009 Posts: 377
      Originally posted by HornetWing
      Yep, the edit is what I was after. I just wanted to make sure I did no miss anything before the test. I just did it, turned out to be easier than I thought. So there isn't a scenario where you would call before the flop. Right?
      I have yet to find one lol.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Well, according to the basic SHC you're absolutely right: no calling before the flop (not even with monster hands as a trap).

      Later you'll discover you can occasionally limp in in late position with low pocket pairs if there are many limpers in front of you (because of the great odds you get and the chance to win a big pot when you hit a set).

      But these situations are really very rare indeed.

      Tim
    • AlexanderD22
      AlexanderD22
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2009 Posts: 377
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Well, according to the basic SHC you're absolutely right: no calling before the flop (not even with monster hands as a trap).

      Later you'll discover you can occasionally limp in in late position with low pocket pairs if there are many limpers in front of you (because of the great odds you get and the chance to win a big pot when you hit a set).

      But these situations are really very rare indeed.

      Tim
      Don't think I've made it that far yet but I supposed the pot odds would need to be min 8:1 since you will hit a set 1 in 7 times or do we factor in implied odds for those limpers who hit top pair?
    • HornetWing
      HornetWing
      Basic
      Joined: 17.09.2009 Posts: 5
      Thank you very much for your answers! I'm not that far in PS level terms. This will be my first online cash games and the strategy (SSS) suggested here is very different to what I would play in real life cash games. Can't wait to give online a shot and move up in PS.
    • Meiffert
      Meiffert
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 151
      Hi, HornetWing,

      you never call preflop, but sometimes you are on the big blind and noone raises, but some players limp into the pot.
      Now you only check the big blind, because you have for example 79, which is not it the chart for raising.
      If the flop now comes K86, you have made an open-ended straight draw with you hand (6789), but you won't play it agressivly because you didn't raise preflop and therefore other players won't give you credit for a good hand like AA, KK, AK or KQ on this board.

      Hope this answers your question, good luck on the tables.


      Originally posted by AlexanderD22
      Well let's say it's your first hand, you are on the button with the same KQo as my other example, with 1 limper before you. You raise to .50 as per chart. SB & BB fold but he calls. Flop is same as I suggested, J-7-T rainbow, let's say as he is first to act he bets .40 into the 1.15 pot. Were you to have been first to act you would have bet roughly .70 according to OESD rules. Now I may be WRONG here but I think you could call the .40 and leave it at that. Correct me if I am wrong someone, might be a leak of my own lol.
      You are wrong here, as a preflop raiser, you should play your draw agressivly and raise all-in on the flop after another player bets.
    • HornetWing
      HornetWing
      Basic
      Joined: 17.09.2009 Posts: 5
      Ahhh, yes! Forgo about checking when on BB. Thanks now its time to pick a room. Pity that i've already signed up for PokerStars.net. :( I think Titan is going to be the room of choice, as I dont like the look FullTilt software. OR can I use my P* account? I've only used it for play money... i.e. I have not entered any details.

      Thanks for all your help guys!
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Originally posted by HornetWing
      Ahhh, yes! Forgo about checking when on BB. Thanks now its time to pick a room. Pity that i've already signed up for PokerStars.net. :( I think Titan is going to be the room of choice, as I dont like the look FullTilt software. OR can I use my P* account? I've only used it for play money... i.e. I have not entered any details.

      Thanks for all your help guys!
      Hi HornetWing & welcome to the community, as you can see all the members are friendly and helpful here.

      Regarding your PokerStars play money account. It is sometimes possible to convert to a real money account by using the PokerStrategy marketing code. It is however down to PokerStars whether they accept that or not.
      I would recommend contacting their (PokerStars) support team to ask, mentioning PokerStrategy and the code and hopefully they will do it all for you.

      Failing that, as you have mentioned, we have lots of other great sites that you can sign up with.
      Full Tilt is similar to Stars in that you have a lot of volume there with U.S. players, good choice of tournaments and good vip/bonuses etc (rakeback too via PokerStrategy), it is my primary platform nowadays.
      A lot of other members really like Titan or Partypoker or the others however, it's really just personal preference in the end.

      After clearing the initial bonuses there's nothing stopping you from taking up one of the 1st deposit bonus offers on a different site if you don't care for the software too much.

      Good luck, we all wish you every success and enjoyment in your poker. See you around the forum soon.

      Best regards,


      Bart