trying to beat NL50, BSS :)

    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127
      Hey guys!

      I've decided to make a blog since I have some questions after my sessions and this will be the place where I will ask hoping for someone to answer :) I also place sample hands at sample hands topic, but I would sometimes like to ask something more general.
      I come from Slovakia, city Levice I was also wondering if there could be Czech-Slovak leaderboars but I don't know whether there are enough players. How many czech and slovak players are registered in Pokerstrategy btw? :)
      So I started reading some articles, registered at fulltilt and waited for my first hand. Then I played NL2 and NL5 whithout good knowledge and went from 50 to 25. I thought I was a goner, so I concentrated more on precise SSS, looked at sample hands forum and gained knowledge about what to do in every specific situation.
      I remember when I was first dealt AA, my net went down and I was sad :( I thought I will never get another chance to play with AA :( And that lead me to mathematical probabilities. What is the chance that I will be dealt AA? And it wasn't so bad :)
      So I returned to NL2 until I learnd how to play basic SSS without flaws. Then when I have beaten the limit(6 dollars for a session - 15 buyins), I climbed up to NL5! When I won 8 dollars once (8 buyins). After clearing the bonus and building bankroll up to 125$, I've decided that I can move to NL10. Wednesday was good +18, but Thursday was bad -24. And that lead me to making this blog.

      So I think that is for today, later on I will add some pictures and graphs and will try to keep this blog up to date.
      current BR: 130$
  • 17 replies
    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127

      I've been wondering whether steals and resteals are profitable at NL10. As it is low limit, many players try to steal don't knowing what they do and with any two cards just because nobody raised and even if someone limped, BU stealraises.
      I had a bad session yesterday (-13BI) and as I rewieved it, it was caused by some variance and bad play. And my main problem are steals. As a resteal I use AJ+/88+ and I usually push all in, but sometimes only raise to 3x the raise. This works fine, but the steals are bigger leak.
      I steal only from small blind and button, raise to 3x big blind. I steal only with good hands - mainly Ax, KT+, QJ, small pocket pairs. If I have SHC hand I also raise it to 3xBB so it will look like steal. This used to be break-even or so, but yesterday it was very unprofitable. That leads me to leaving out steals for now, until I improve.
      I'm trying to play advanced SSS, adding to my game moves as squeezing, steals and resteals. I also use elephant HUD, but I'm planning to win HEM on some other poker platform when I will be confident with my play and will have ready BR.
      But as I said earlier, I have some problems with the advanced moves and yesterday they didn't pay out smile
      As I was thinking, the problem may be in me not adjusting to the players as I multitable (always 8 on full tilt).
      The only problem with the donkeys is variance, but that doesn't concern me very much.
      The problem with calling stations is that I don't play for value and I like to semi-bluff as my standard moves. And here I also have problem with steals. Even if I am ahead preflop, if they call I may be very easily behind. And then even if I miss the flop I _c-bet_ and calling station folds? No. Call. With bottom pair of course.
      Good BSS players who know how to play against SSS - there aren't too many but sometimes I meet them. The only problem is to distinguish them. As soon as I put notes on them it's fine smile I've read some BSS articles and know what they raise, call with, so usually when I am in position I am ahead, but when I am out of position I can be easily behind smile
      Distinguising SSS players and players who play with minimal stack is also useful but as I play there only for a week or so I don't have many statistic. They are also no thread to me. I know what they play and I raise only if I am ahead.
      Edit: Hand played yesterday: 1933 BB/100 -12,15

      And now to the point: I used this thread and self improving text, I can look at it after some sessions and see if I do the same mistakes, or some new mistakes that crossed my way. I wold also like to hear some feedback and suggestions mainly about the steals smile
      Have fun at the tables !
    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127
      1. Steals are not as effective as a short stack, primarily because your stack size is less of a threat. Wait until you have enough of a BR for a big stack in my opinion. The same applies to squeezing and re-steals.

      It has been stated by pokerstrategy on SSS, that it primarily works because opponents view you as less of a threat. How could stealing be profitable if this is true?

      2. If you attempt a steal, and your opponent re-raises you, often you're committed and forced yourself to commit money into a -EV situation.

      3. NEVER attempt new strategies while multi-tabling. This is a very effective way to lose money, because you're not paying enough attention to the tables.

      4. You're judging your results based on one day. Poker has huge variance, so assume you were playing perfect strategy, you could end up losing money that day. Until you try it over at least 2000 hands (many would say 10-20k) you do not have remotely accurate data to base whether a strategy works or not.

      This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by altruist: Today, 08:33.
    • RahXephon1
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 972
      Steals are very profitable on NL10, the trick is to steal from the right persons. If you use stats you should have no problem indentifying the tight multitablers. They don't notice when you steal from them. Just beware, if they resteal they usually have a good hand.

      Don't steal from fishes, they will fight back, play your good hands there.

      Relevant stat. Fold bb to steal. If that value is let's say over 90% you can steal from person like that with almost any two cards, just note that you need a good sample of hands for theses stats to be reliable.
    • RaWRpewpew
      Joined: 23.08.2009 Posts: 83
      I agree with RahXephon1 steals are definately profitable.

      Be sure to use your stats to know who to steal from - Some tags stay very tight even on the BU some people raise any 2.... and then call with any2 if a small stack goes all in over their heads. Should be your favourite fish ;)

      I'm also shortstacking NL10 on FTP... dont know if i have any hands on u ^^
    • zloVkvetinaci
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 155
      when you'll come back to brno, we'll discuss the mentioned topics by a beer :s_cool:
    • pootsman
      Joined: 06.08.2009 Posts: 19
      I also agree with RahXephon1. Playing SSS atm at cake poker, multitableing in nl10. Even if your playing like 10+ tables like i do, you still notice some very tight players. They are your target. Sometimes i notice that a table in overall is very tight, most pots are contested by the blinds i raise with hands that aren't playable in the particular position according to the chart(never from early position thou). I only do this when i am confident enough that in most cases it will succeed.
      Even if a blind calls you probably still have the best hand.
      If i get re-raised, in most cases i fold.

      So what to do when your steal gets called? (it's a lot easier when you get raised: you fold mostly)
      1. Look who called your raise. Is he/she tight, loose or just some random goon..
      2. Analyze the texture of the flop(you can read more about it in books or maybe there are some articles here). What kind of a flop is it? Flushing? Straightening? Is there a pair on the board? Highcards/lowcards or a mixture of both?
      Then the important questions: How likely is it that your opponent hit the flop? What do you have?
      If i think the flop is dangerous then i check, when he checks the turn i can think about a bet.
      If he bets, you have to think what does that mean.. and thus, raise or fold.
      When it is checked to me and i decide t c-bet, i always try to represent something with my bet. The easiest way to do that is to think you actually have the hand your representing and how much would you bet for value or to protect your hand.

      With It will probably take a while to get good at this, but i think you will atleast learn a little while multi-tabling.
      I do it while playing at 10-12 tables without any stats.^^

      Hope this helps! :)
    • RaWRpewpew
      Joined: 23.08.2009 Posts: 83

      Your stealing from late position though mostly so... he is acting before you :p

      Also the blinds leading out postflop after calling a BU/CO steal attempt is quite popular sometimes even with complete trash :P

      As a shortstack player your still going to be ahead a good deal of the time because your stealing tighter then the bigstacks. You wont be stealing with suited connectors etc... or totally trash hands. Unless the blinds fold ALOT :D

      Also... I HATE CAKE. In real life and the pokerroom.
    • pootsman
      Joined: 06.08.2009 Posts: 19
      To RaWRpewpew:
      :D I don't like cake either but i went busto, so i needed to find a place where i did not have an account already(to get the bonus). ^^

      I meant that if i think the flop may have helped my opponent i check after him and if he checks twice(flop&turn) i could think about a bet.

      That should clear it, ^^
    • RaWRpewpew
      Joined: 23.08.2009 Posts: 83
      My win rate on cake is very bad :p

      I received my starting capital there but I dont play there that often. Only when im keen for a change of scenery. I'll eventually clear all my bonus :P
    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127

      Hello everybody !

      Yesterday I've completed Take 2 challenge at FTP :)
      I've played everyday this month, sometimes only to make the needed bonus points :)
      So my bankroll can expect 50 bonus very soon :)
      For the last week of my playing, I've been mostly breakeven but I have received two big rakebacks (not really big, but the biggest I have received so far :) ) 9,50 and 8,50
      Thanks to that, my BR is up to whooooosh 148$

      Maybe I will find some interesting hands and post them, but I have more of a question in general and that is:
      How to play with doubled stack profitably?
      As I want to improve my game I don't leave the table as soon as I win something but wait for big blind to come.
      So I'm waiting for a playable hand, but how to play it, when I get it?

      I've heard two different ways of how to deal with it:
      1.You play all your hands according to SHC preflop, but are more careful about going all in and bluffing postflop - If you hit TPTK it's all in but if you don't you evaulate your hand again and fold if needed.
      2.You only play good starting hands:QQ+, AK

      How I played so far? I play all SHC with changed position - I play middle as early, late as middle and early without TT AQ. Meaning I don't play KQ, AJ, 77, 88 anymore. I think preflop play is not affected with the stack, I raise to 4+1xL and go all in instead of raising to 3 times when somebody raises(though this may be a leak?)

      But what concerns me is: As i have bigger stack, I give more implied odds to my opponents and therefore good BSS players might take the chance and see flop with me whereas they wouldn't to it if I had less than 20 BB.
      I can see flush and straight if there is some, but what I can't see is set.

      And the final question tadaaaa: How to deal with it? :) Even overpair loses to set :)

      Thank you for any suggestions
    • Bronscapade
      Joined: 30.08.2009 Posts: 50
      Double stack play :

      You cant go wrong with playing tighter with a double stack, you will lose out on some value but your variance will be greater if you keep your starting hands the same. SSS really doesnt need any extra variance dont you think?

      Do you have BSS experience?
    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127
      Hello again,

      today I decided, that I will revive this blog with update and maybe I will be adding some more things after update too :)

      As we know, many poker sites changed the minimum buyin fo cash games, so I switched to BSS, as I play on Full tilt. I changed to BSS a half year ago and was playing NL 25 FR. My BR was at 700$ at that time.
      As I learned BSS concepts, watched vids and read articles, I was getting better and better. Bad sessions always motivated me to fixing leaks. I wanted to build a solid game on NL 25 and move up only after that even if my bankroll was ready for NL 50.
      I don't put enough volume every month and I am not a steady player, as I have some school stuff to do and so :)
      Anyway, I moved to NL 50 this month as I felt my game was pretty solid without making huge mistakes.
      That proved to be wrong on NL 50, but I study hard now again to fix it.
      My goal for each month is 300$ in winings in 15k hands. That is a fine sum for me to support my student life.
      If I dont have enough time, I decrease the amount of hands and also the bucks.
      That's it for now, I will add some pictures of my progress :)
    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127
      Here is grapg of my progress.
      Last 5k hands are from NL 50 this month and are worth 165$ :)
      these 75k hands are 201 hours of play according to HEM

      Uploaded with

      1. and here is one of the big under EV hand from the end of the graph :)
      saw flop | saw showdown

      BB ($53.25)
      UTG ($50)
      UTG+1 ($19.10) fish
      MP1 ($55.35) some unknown reg, I thought he will have at least JJ or AK, but he saw the juicy fish calling and couldnt resist shoving it after tanking a while :) I would call with QQ+ which is the first hand I would 4-bet for value here :)
      MP2 ($27.35)
      MP3 ($46.75)
      Hero (CO) ($52.05)
      Button ($53.80)
      SB ($72.50)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A
      1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 bets $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $5, MP1 raises to $55.35 (All-In), Hero calls $46.55 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $13.60 (All-In)

      Flop: ($123.95) 3, 8, 5 (3 players, 3 all-in)

      Turn: ($123.95) 9 (3 players, 3 all-in)

      River: ($123.95) 6 (3 players, 3 all-in)

      Total pot: $123.95 | Rake: $3

      UTG+1 had 9, 7 (straight, nine high).
      MP1 had 7, 7 (straight, nine high).
      Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
      Outcome: UTG+1 won $27.60, MP1 won $93.35

      2. and here comes the second under EV hand :)
      nice squeeze spot, just the hand is not ideal.
      But the caller seems to be passive and loose fit or fold so far.
      as soon as he calls flop I put him on middle or overpair, maybe AJ.
      the turn c/r is very likely overpair, but I can see him having better two or set of tens from time to time :)
      Lucky river for him :)
      saw flop | saw showdown

      BB ($24.65)
      UTG ($51.10)
      UTG+1 ($58.50)
      MP1 ($58.05)
      MP2 ($38.70)
      MP3 ($46.55)
      CO ($64.50) 34/4 110 hands
      Hero (Button) ($73.30)
      SB ($50)

      Preflop: Hero is Button with J, 5
      UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 bets $2, 2 folds, CO calls $2, Hero raises to $7.50, 4 folds, CO calls $5.50

      Flop: ($18.25) 8, J, 5 (2 players)
      CO checks, Hero bets $9, CO calls $9

      Turn: ($36.25) T (2 players)
      CO checks, Hero bets $21.50, CO raises to $48 (All-In), Hero calls $26.50

      River: ($132.25) T (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: $132.25 | Rake: $3

      Hero had J, 5 (two pair, Jacks and tens).
      CO had K, K (two pair, Kings and tens).
      Outcome: CO won $129.25
    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127
      On the contrary, here is my biggest winning hand so far.
      not very creative, but still fine :)
      I thought about calling his 4bet, but then, he was telling me he wants to get it in pre with his bet sizing, so I let him.
      I put him on KK+
      If he was decent, he wouldn't 4bet with KK so deep in these positions.

      saw flop | saw showdown

      MP2 ($25.90)
      MP3 ($50)
      CO ($16.65)
      Button ($71.80)
      SB ($17.25)
      BB ($50.55)
      UTG ($131.70) 25/9 40 hands
      Hero (UTG+1) ($91.40)
      MP1 ($52.85)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, A
      UTG bets $1.50, Hero raises to $5, 7 folds, UTG raises to $17.50, Hero raises to $32, UTG raises to $131.70 (All-In), Hero calls $59.40 (All-In)

      Flop: ($183.55) 6, 9, Q (2 players, 2 all-in)

      Turn: ($183.55) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

      River: ($183.55) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

      Total pot: $183.55 | Rake: $3

      UTG had K, K (one pair, Kings).
      Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
      Outcome: Hero won $180.55
    • THESHade
      Joined: 25.03.2010 Posts: 5,418
      Nice graph uve got there
    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127

      Here is a brief summary of the month
      I won't play this month anymore, so I update this already.
      I ran at 3,7 BB/100.
      I played NL 50 FR for the first time, and found the field far less fishy than at NL 25. It's rare to find a table with 2+ fish at the table during day and fish come mainly after 11:00 pm GMT and last to 7:00 GMT, which is the time when I sleep :)

      For the next month, I want to improve my hand reading skills and putting it to use, as I think this is my biggest leak.
      I also want to improve my value extracting and playing OOP.

      So how am I gonna do it?
      watch at least 10 videos, read some articles, attend wednesday silver BSS coaching and play at least 15k hands, ideally 20-25k, by playing NL 25 SH 1/3 of the hands and NL 50 FR, 2/3 of the hands.

      If not completed, play more in january :)
    • oedipa
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 127
      I forgot to update my bankroll.
      Now I have 2450$ at full tilt, after I withdrew 330$ this month.
      I plan to withdraw 330 each month, so I want to earn at least as much :)
      But of course, the money is not the main thing, the main thing is to play my A game and for that, I will have to think of some improvement of exploiting regs.
      Advices are welcome :)