Swings & other Stud/Stud8/Razz questions

    • lsr002b0
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 2
      Are these non-flop games pretty straight foward... if we are a winning player we will see our BR grow and if we arent very good you will notice early... do we need to prepare for high ammount of variance like in Fl holdem and keep a padded bankroll of about 500BBs or is playing with like 300-400BBs okay?

      Also I seem to find it is impossible to play more then 4 tables though i usually stick to about 2 since i need to keep track of upcards.

      Also what kind of winrates are normal for these kinds of games I am kind of hoping that I wouldn't have to play any more Holdem but is it hard to keep large winrates just like in FL holdem? Am I going to have to settle for 1-2 BBs/100...
  • 5 replies
    • michaelg5pro
      Joined: 18.12.2006 Posts: 2,627
      300 to 500 is all absolute okay, however it is reasonable to make some discintions between these games, which refers mostly to Stud hi which is quite fragil and can definetely be as frustrating as holdem.
      Unlike Stud Hi, this is less the case when it comes to Stud8, where the splitting reduces variance, and razz, where ones standing in a heand is mostly quite clear and you will rarely experience more than small downswings. Additional variance of course depends on you style of play and the games you are in - are you willing to push small edges, do you play more on tight tables?

      yeah grinding studgames is hard..

      Don't aspire high winrates. It will take a looong to even get some clue where yours could be.
    • Jim9137
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      Razz's variance is actually pretty high. You are often in spots where it's justifiable to call, and same goes for your opponents, so you see plenty of variance one way or another in one session. I'd recommend equal bankroll for razz as Stud hi.

      Stud8 is only second to PLO8 full ring when it comes to lack of variance, but it's winrate isn't that high. I've heard people play it with 100BBs though, so...

      On full tilt, you can put the dealer chat to everything and the upcards will be in the chat, along with the suit. Helps. :f_biggrin:
    • michaelg5pro
      Joined: 18.12.2006 Posts: 2,627
      If you are solid winning in Razz you won't face huge downswings. Not meaning not at all, but nothing to bother. For me it's the lowest variance game. The other studgames are more the rollercoasters, esp Stud Hi.

      In general it is often argued, the additional betting round of studgames in contrast to holdem increases swings - that's something one can deal with imo, especially because one will be able to recognize plenty of quite clear fold spots.
      A lot of players don't consider this and overvalue their sd equity and potodds on one single street and find reasons to call.

      Originally posted by Jim9137
      On full tilt, you can put the dealer chat to everything and the upcards will be in the chat, along with the suit. Helps

      another help is just typing them into chatbox immediately or just practise remembering.
    • mChavez
      Joined: 13.02.2009 Posts: 323
      Stud HI's short term variance is huge. On FT $0.5/1 and $1/2 limits it is common to see 40-50 BB family pots with lots of fish calling without looking at their cards. THis means more bb/hour but also more suckouts -> higher variance. Though 300-500 BRM is ok imho as long as you analyse your mistakes and try to play at least a decent game.

      PS more (and larger) bad beats in a row are not easy to handle. FOr me 3 bad beats = tilt and I close the tables.

      Also I found it hard to concentrate for longer than 1hr durign my sessions. I play well and win alot during the first hour or so and then I start loosing. dunno why =(
    • Wacko118
      Joined: 21.06.2009 Posts: 300
      i tend to find that stud8 has less variance cos i have a much tighter range of hands im willing to play. That said i have been winning consistently and prefer playing stud hi. Im up about $100 in 6days playing the 0.25/0.50 games on FT. So many fish there.
      For example i have 2 pair on the up cards and a guy calls me all the way down, what does he think i honestly have? he turns ova 2 pair i show him the boat. Fish :)