I asked this question before

    • fcumred
      fcumred
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2008 Posts: 55
      Not long ago I had someone sign up to PS via my link. he passed the quiz, requested a bankroll and was succesful in gaining money..

      Sure enough he soon built up points. Wooopeee thought I. I get money for this..

      WRONG

      According to PS he had created an account before and therefore I wasnt entitled to be paid because he'd broken the rules by creating a second account.

      fair enough, I can understand that.. He'll have his PS account closed, the poker site will be informed, he will lose the money and thats the end of it..

      But actually no.... Whats happened is hes been allowed to keep the money he had. Hes made it grow.. Hes still accumulating points... in playing hes earning PS money.. PS are earning money from him...

      Yes I am not allowed a cent from it because HE BROKE THE RULES.

      OK maybe he did, but surely PS cannot sit there demanding honesty then take money from the pokersites for the rake hes paying, then claim the moral high ground and say I shouldnt be paid because of his dishonesty.

      If PS was so honest they would have contacted the site and told them straight away what had happened, how he had lied, and that they should take the initial money back and close the account immediately.

      At the end of the day, the player has benefitted because he lied and got the money which hes made grow. PS has benefitted because he lied and they get a nice cut from the pokersite which he signed up to and got money he shouldnt have.

      The only innocent party in this is me, who referred him, and yet I dont get a brass cent out of it. I am the only one being 100% honest, and I dont get paid. Those that are lying ( the player for creating an account he shouldnt have had, and PS for claiming the rake from that account that he shouldnt have without telling the site what hes done) are happily raking it in.

      That persons account still continues to accumulate points meaning hes still playing, and hes still earning PS money in the process.

      At the end of the day, and its really this simple..

      PS didnt do their checks before giving out the free money. THAT IS NOT MY FAULT

      The player lied - THAT IS NOT MY FAULT

      So why is it I am the only one whos being denied the money when the fault lies at the hands of the player and PS and yet they get a nice sum out of it and I get diddly squat...

      Its wrong.. Sorry but it is..

      So can someone from PS please tell me why they should earn money from this player through him playing with money he shouldnt have got in the first place, yet I should be made to suffer because of it..

      I dont want to hear HE BROKE THE RULES THATS THE END OF IT.. Because its not the end of it.. the end of it is when the player has his acount frozen, he loses what he has got, PS stops earning money from him, and his name is taken off my account and he stops accumulating points..

      Until that point he continues to benefit. PS continues to benefit, and I have to sit idly by and watch and cant say a word... The only one who hasnt done anything wrong, and I am the one being made to suffer.
  • 6 replies
    • lozz08
      lozz08
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 106
      I concur... I guess. Make some new friends. :P

      No that is quite BS and hypocritical of PS, and I have heard of this happening many a time. Nothing you can do about it except maybe come together and mass complain.
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Hi fcumred,

      Moderators do not have any access to members accounts (for security reasons) so I cannot comment on this particular case specifically.

      What I can say however is that if a member is found guilty of obtaining more than one account, they will be deactivated and will be unable to gain access to any of the benefits that PokerStrategy provide, e.g. the PokerStrategy points, strategy guides, coaching sessions, special events/promotions.

      The starting capitals of any such person would also be removed, however there is nothing stopping that person from making a deposit on their linked account with his/her own money and carrying on playing.

      PokerStrategy would continue to earn a small royalty from the introduction of that player to the poker platform. That income is used to fund all of the great stuff that PokerStrategy provides to it's members, but once again, I stress that any player breaking PokerStrategy rules would not benefit from these.

      You could have an argument for still getting some form of TAF payment for players that continue to earn income for PokerStrategy, however to be fair, the vast majority of defaulting players do not deposit their own funds to continue playing and logistically it isn't possible to distinguish between those that do and don't.
      I would also stress that obviously only one TAF payment can be made and that would be provided to whoever initially introduces people to PokerStrategy and not introduces existing members (albeit through no fault of your own).

      I think you've been very unlucky this time around, such cases are rare, but don't let it put you off, the TAF scheme can be very rewarding for you in the long term.

      Best regards,


      Bart
    • fcumred
      fcumred
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2008 Posts: 55
      I have to report that PS have been absolutely superb and agreed to pay the money accrued for the person in question.

      Fair play to them

      Confidence fully restored...
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hello fcumred,

      I missed this thread before but just some clarification since you seem to have misunderstood some things.

      1) The user created two PokerStrategy accounts and thus received the starting capital twice. The only terms & conditions he violated against are OURS though. If a user signs up an account with us and received e.g. starting capital at Titan Poker and then again with another account and receives starting capital with PokerStars he is not violating any poker room rules - since both of his poker room accounts are legitimate.

      The only thing he would have done is to have violated are terms and conditions and thus stolen $50 from us. It is therefore completely normal that we would continue to receive rake from his play - since after all we would need to recover the "loss".

      Even if we wanted them to - the poker rooms have no reasons to close his accounts if it his only account at their platform. So why would we not also be tracked through him - if we already paid $50 for it?

      2) The reason why our support declined your TAF payment was because he had already had a previous PS.com account. The TAF system exists so that members can refer their friends who are not yet registered at PokerStrategy.com to our site. In this case the user had been inititally referred to us by someone else who we paid TAF money to. He then made another account through your TAF link - which is obviously against the rules.

      Since we had already paid for his referral to our site and because he already knew about our site (and did not find out about it through you) our support did not want to pay the TAF money since we would be paying for a referral of a player who had already been referred previously and who had been deactivated. I think this is understandable.


      At the bottom line it seems our support has out of some reason still elected to now pay you - even though they wouldn't need to - from both moral and business point of view. It seems you were therefore quite lucky.

      I hope you understand though that while you aren't actually at fault that a fraudster signed up through you - that it would be catastrophic from a business point of view for us to pay TAF money for cases in which users manage to fraud us and that you weren't actually the person who originally brought him to PokerStrategy.com.

      Nonetheless I am happy this case has been resolved.

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • fcumred
      fcumred
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2008 Posts: 55
      SoyCD, I fully understand where you are coming from, but the crux of the matter, in my view is this.

      PS.com, as you say is a business.

      They do not give out $50 then pay the referrer $25 if they havent earned enough to cover it in the first place. Thats basic business sense.

      If the player loses the $50 in one hand, then the affilaite gets nothing, and quite rightly so.

      Yes I understand you should get your money back. Thats perfectly right. However once you have your money back, which quite clearly in my case, you do, then anything over and above that is sheer profit, if as you say, the referrer is not to be paid anything. Once you have your $50 back then what ? You just keep taking the money forever and a day. Gleefully rubbing your hands together because you got a freebie ???

      You are taking the money from an account you claim should never have been given in the first place, and pocketing it.. Telling the referrer that the account was wrongly opened ( if it was done correctly bear in mind, you wouldnt be getting a brass cent either ).

      If the account was opened fraudulently, whether its attempting the pokersite, or the yourselves, its still not my fault. Is it my fault you didnt do your checks before you allowed him to have the money ? Ulitmately thats what it boils down to..

      You didnt do your checks, and he conned $50 out of you. If anyone should be made to suffer then it shouldnt be the person whos link was used. I run a poker site , and I pay for that site. It costs me substantial amounts, and if PS is happy to have their name promoted on my site, then they should likewise be happy to keep their side of the bargain, which is, if I refer someone, they check him out, they pay him $50, when he's earned them enough money, they pay me....

      If somewhere that falls down because you failed somewhere to do your checks, thats not my problem. Thats yours..... Your logo is still sat there on my site, i am still referring people..You are still paying them.. the fact they are conning you isnt my problem to resolve, thats yours. I still expect to be paid, even if, as you say here, your site finds its been conned.

      If a shopkeeper sells goods to someone who uses a stolen credit card, the banks don't sit there and say SORRY YOU WONT GET PAID THE CARD WAS ILLEGAL. THe shopkeeper still has the right to be paid. Hes kept to his side of the bargain. THe fact the banks allowed a stolen card to be used is the banks problem not the shopkeepers... The banks have to suffer the loss because ultimately its their fault...

      And so it is in this case. THe fact you didnt check the details correctly isnt my problem. You paid him $50 you shouldnt have. Fortunately for yourselves hes managed to earn you enough to recoup your losses. Thats good fortune on your part.

      But either way, at no point was this my fault, at no point should I be the one made to suffer.

      As you say, its business. And I am running a business too. If I sell something I want paying for it. In this case, I sold your advert to a customer who made you money.. Why shouldnt I get paid....

      Anyhow, neither here nor there. I have been paid now, and I am happy,
    • csnmf
      csnmf
      Global
      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      I had a similar case, the player i referred had his PS account deactivated. As far as i can tell from my referral page he did not receive any starting capital and is now earning points i guess through depositing his own money. Yet i am not allowed to earn any credit for this.

      I don't understand why my case is any different to the person above and my player didn't even con pokerstrategy out of any money.